What if I started a company, and all good candidates were male, and the women weren't on par? What if no women applied at all? I don't get this whole gender thing. If statistically less women apply to a STEM degree, or tech related job, how is it the fault of "white males"? White male guilt at it's finest if you ask me. If you actively see discrimination, do something about it. I actually work with a team that is 90%…
Clearly you ought to parcel out the women on your team to the other teams until you've reached parity across the board. Change begins with you!
Be a Man and Stand Up for Gender Equality
51–60 of 68 posts
Re: Be a Man and Stand Up for Gender Equality
#52What if I started a company, and all good candidates were male, and the women weren't on par? What if no women applied at all? I don't get this whole gender thing. If statistically less women apply to a STEM degree, or tech related job, how is it the fault of "white males"? White male guilt at it's finest if you ask me. If you actively see discrimination, do something about it. I actually work with a team that is 90%…
Your viewpoint is predicated on an assumption: that equality is the equilibrium state of human society. In such a world where this equilibrium exists, there is no need for "ideology and affirmative action" because any affirmative actions to create inequality will be erased through the passage of time as the world returns to the equilibrium of equality. The problem with this attitude is that it is utterly unwarranted,…
It is irrefutable that for generations American society took "affirmative action" to suppress men, to pigeonhole them into an overworked, hyper-stressed, diseased, prematurely fatal gender role concerned only with selfless providing for and protecting the women and children in their lives.
Feminists look at the 0.1% of men at the top of society throughout history, and willfully ignore the 99.9% of men at the bottom. Those men at the top of society are useful for shoring up sympathy for women; those men at the bottom of society are not.
> Who wants to, as a woman, invest themselves in a career in tech when there is a decent chance your boss will be this guy
What a sophomoric, hand-wavy thing to say. Who wants to, as a man, invest themselves in a career in tech when there is a decent chance your boss will be this guy, who is actually, literally a powerful boss who says bullying things toward men who don't toe the third-wave feminist line:
http://www.joyent.com/blog/the-power-of-a-pronoun
Plus, the man you're trying to ridicule is correct, as a recent large study shows beyond all reasonable doubt ("Penn Medicine Brain Imaging Study Helps Explain Different Cognitive Strengths in Men and Women"):
http://www.uphs.upenn.edu/news/News_Releases/2013/12/verma/
When in life do men's and women's brains diverge? Not during their youngest, most plastic years. Nope. During the surge of sex hormones in puberty. It doesn't mean men or worse or women are worse. It just means that like all other intelligent species, humans have different psychological tendencies between sexes.
> The solution to gender inequality issues is to simply hire women. Hire women and promote women.
This is a terrible idea, unless you only care about ensuring that every company has at least one vagina for every penis. History (and the present) shows us that this sort of widespread coddling is guaranteed to help privileged, connected women at the expense of underprivileged, unconnected men.
Hyper-privileged, connected, powerful men like yourself will have no issues finding a job either way. But young men—who are already out-educated and out-earned by young women—are badly affected, especially those without connections. Considering the lack of personal repercussions, it's little surprise that it's trendy for old, rich men to throw young, poor men under the bus. It's par for the course for history, in fact.
> employers tend to treat similar resumes with male versus female names differently.
Why shouldn't they, especially in the world you want?
Re: Be a Man and Stand Up for Gender Equality
#53Earlier quoted context omitted.
My point has nothing to do with whether this particular board was established under discrimination, and everything to do with the author's notion that a company cannot be successful without women on the board. I have nothing against women on the board, but I think it is intuitively obvious that neither gender is a prerequisite for success.
Not wanting to challenge your intuition, but my notion was that company success is strongly correlated to women on the board and gender equality. Hopefully the research linked in my email at the bottom of the original post might prompt you to reconsider your intuitive position (one that is unfortunately shared by many people).
Re: Be a Man and Stand Up for Gender Equality
#54Earlier quoted context omitted.
Not wanting to challenge your intuition, but my notion was that company success is strongly correlated to women on the board and gender equality. Hopefully the research linked in my email at the bottom of the original post might prompt you to reconsider your intuitive position (one that is unfortunately shared by many people).
Tzunamitom, none of the text in the links at the bottom of your email prove that women are necessary for success. Even if having women on the board increases chances for success, or increases the magnitude of success, how can you say with a straight face that a company cannot be successful without women on the board? (Or without men on the board?) There are countless companies that have grown successful with only men…
Re: Be a Man and Stand Up for Gender Equality
#55Earlier quoted context omitted.
Tzunamitom, none of the text in the links at the bottom of your email prove that women are necessary for success. Even if having women on the board increases chances for success, or increases the magnitude of success, how can you say with a straight face that a company cannot be successful without women on the board? (Or without men on the board?) There are countless companies that have grown successful with only men…
Pat, I have better things to do than debate semantics with a bored undergrad who aggressively downvotes any opinion that dissents with his. Take what you can from the discussion on gender equality...or don't, you're the one missing out.
If you were true and committed to your cause, you'd engage in a discussion with full intellectual honesty regardless of whether the person you're involved with happens to be a "bored undergrad" or not.
Re: Be a Man and Stand Up for Gender Equality
#56Earlier quoted context omitted.
Your viewpoint is predicated on an assumption: that equality is the equilibrium state of human society. In such a world where this equilibrium exists, there is no need for "ideology and affirmative action" because any affirmative actions to create inequality will be erased through the passage of time as the world returns to the equilibrium of equality. The problem with this attitude is that it is utterly unwarranted,…
> It is irrefutable that for generations American society took "affirmative action" to suppress women, to pigeonhole them into an impoverished gender role concerned only with housekeeping and child rearing. It is irrefutable that for generations American society took "affirmative action" to suppress men, to pigeonhole them into an overworked, hyper-stressed, diseased, prematurely fatal gender role concerned only with…
Re: Be a Man and Stand Up for Gender Equality
#57Earlier quoted context omitted.
> It is irrefutable that for generations American society took "affirmative action" to suppress women, to pigeonhole them into an impoverished gender role concerned only with housekeeping and child rearing. It is irrefutable that for generations American society took "affirmative action" to suppress men, to pigeonhole them into an overworked, hyper-stressed, diseased, prematurely fatal gender role concerned only with…
Gender issues thread on HN? Requisite /r/MensRights post. It's like an iron law of the universe or something.
Did you ever think that maybe, just maybe the MensRights folks are the way they are because they felt discriminated against at some point in their life? And now they've found support by being there for each other? Who are you to mock them?
tptacek, you've been in the IT industry long enough, you should know by now that there actually are a considerable amount of men in this field who were made fun of when they younger, who were rejected by their peers and made to feel that no women would ever want them. They've lived their childhood, their adolescence thinking they're nerdy and unattractive, and there was no hope. Try and understand where they might be coming from.
I'm reasonably certain your intentions are good, but please understand that your insensitive demeanor on gender issues threads is more polarizing and inflammatory than anything that's likely to bring people together in any sort of conciliatory way. I implore you to really take a moment and reflect on this. Think about what you can do to really bring people together, rather than pushing them away and antagonizing them.
Re: Be a Man and Stand Up for Gender Equality
#58Earlier quoted context omitted.
Gender issues thread on HN? Requisite /r/MensRights post. It's like an iron law of the universe or something.
Why do you feel the need to diminish a counter viewpoint (however misguided it may be) in such a confrontational way? By reducing it to a buzzwordy opponent identity, you've pretty much nullified any chance of constructive discussion there was. Did you ever think that maybe, just maybe the MensRights folks are the way they are because they felt discriminated against at some point in their life? And now they've found…
You show me the startup that carefully considers whether or not to hire 20-something men for fear that they might have children and need to take time off or work less than 60 hours a week. That happens, and I'll carefully consider the notion that men are oppressed in our workforce.
Good luck.
Re: Be a Man and Stand Up for Gender Equality
#59Earlier quoted context omitted.
> It is irrefutable that for generations American society took "affirmative action" to suppress women, to pigeonhole them into an impoverished gender role concerned only with housekeeping and child rearing. It is irrefutable that for generations American society took "affirmative action" to suppress men, to pigeonhole them into an overworked, hyper-stressed, diseased, prematurely fatal gender role concerned only with…
Gender issues thread on HN? Requisite /r/MensRights post. It's like an iron law of the universe or something.
Western culture's hypersensitivity toward women's issues, combined with its blindness toward men's issues, create an environment in which it's socially acceptable (even socially rewarded) to propose draconian measures that further throw young men under the bus that's carrying young women.
We should aim to help people who are suffering in society, rather than aim to help people with vaginas. And we absolutely shouldn't continue obsessing about leveling evening every single predominately male field without doing something to help the young men who are increasingly being left behind.
Re: Be a Man and Stand Up for Gender Equality
#60Earlier quoted context omitted.
Gender issues thread on HN? Requisite /r/MensRights post. It's like an iron law of the universe or something.
If my post came across as a generic "men's rights" post, rather than a direct response to the parent, then I didn't do a good enough job of tying it together. Western culture's hypersensitivity toward women's issues, combined with its blindness toward men's issues, create an environment in which it's socially acceptable (even socially rewarded ) to propose draconian measures that further throw young men under the bus…