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Crime Lab Scandal Leaves Massachusetts Legal System In Turmoil

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Re: Crime Lab Scandal Leaves Massachusetts Legal System In Turmoil

#51

Post by bmelton »

nimble wrote: post #36
vsviridov wrote: post #3

34000 tainted cases is not "messed up big time". It's deliberate and malicious. And she gets 3-5 years? Bullshit.

Actually, 3-5 years sounds pretty reasonable. If you think about it, you should be glad that she didn't get a crazy "send a message" punishment of 20 years or life in prison. She'll never work in that capacity again, so it's not like there's a need to separate her from society for the protection of society. A better question to address is how a single rogue person could do so much damage. This is institutional failur…

If she were sentenced 1 day's prison time for each of the occurrences, it would add up to ~40,000 days in prison, or ~109 years.

I don't disagree that there's an institutional failure, and that perhaps there are others to blame, but she has negligently affected countless lives by disregarding her oaths to uphold the law, and I believe that sort of thing should carry more penalty, not less. Also, we really, really need to start making our civil servants accountable to flagrant violations of the law, lest we have more of them lying before Congress without fear of actual penalty.

Re: Crime Lab Scandal Leaves Massachusetts Legal System In Turmoil

#52

Post by drjesusphd »

girvo wrote: post #40
chimeracoder wrote: post #35

> "It's unsettling and maddening, because you're now going to have a lot of people get released to the street prematurely," says Middlesex County District attorney Gerry Leone, one of many hoping the state supreme court will curb the releases. That's a pretty bad way of looking at this, because it assumes that those people deserved to be behind bars to begin with, and ignores those that didn't. How about, "It's unset…

That is not how the police work nor think about cases, though. One of the many reasons I dislike them.

He's not a cop though, he's a district attorney.

Re: Crime Lab Scandal Leaves Massachusetts Legal System In Turmoil

#53

Post by bmelton »

analog31 wrote: post #46
gms wrote: post #20

I assume nothing will happen to the prosecutors she worked with.

Are they elected?

Only the actual district attorney is elected, and the DA is seldom responsible for the actual trying of cases. The DA is usually pretty far removed from the minutia of actual casework.

Re: Crime Lab Scandal Leaves Massachusetts Legal System In Turmoil

#54

Post by Crito »

judk wrote: post #18

http://www.boston.com/news/local/massachusetts/2012/12/20/in... The DA is already covering up and defending the prosecutor's involvement, saying there is nothing wrong with prosecutors telling Dhookan what test results they needed to get their convictions, in clear violation of proper experimental procedures.

Forensic science in general is an absolute joke. It makes a mockery of the very concept of science. There are a few isolated pockets where the techniques and procedures used are sound, but for the most part the scientific method and rigor are nowhere to be seen.

Re: Crime Lab Scandal Leaves Massachusetts Legal System In Turmoil

#55

Post by [deleted] »

ensignavenger wrote: post #48
chimeracoder wrote: post #35

> "It's unsettling and maddening, because you're now going to have a lot of people get released to the street prematurely," says Middlesex County District attorney Gerry Leone, one of many hoping the state supreme court will curb the releases. That's a pretty bad way of looking at this, because it assumes that those people deserved to be behind bars to begin with, and ignores those that didn't. How about, "It's unset…

All suspects a guilty, period. Or else they wouldn't be suspects, now would they?

[deleted]

Re: Crime Lab Scandal Leaves Massachusetts Legal System In Turmoil

#56

Post by Zigurd »

scotch_drinker wrote: post #49
chimeracoder wrote: post #35

> "It's unsettling and maddening, because you're now going to have a lot of people get released to the street prematurely," says Middlesex County District attorney Gerry Leone, one of many hoping the state supreme court will curb the releases. That's a pretty bad way of looking at this, because it assumes that those people deserved to be behind bars to begin with, and ignores those that didn't. How about, "It's unset…

At the risk of painting with a very wide brush, DAs aren't incentivized to make sure people get due process. They are incentivized to convict as many people as possible. In multiple cases here in Texas where later DNA evidence overturned rape and murder charges, the DA argued right up until the moment of reversal that they believed totally in the guilt of the accused. They have to, it's their job and to have public d…

How likely this went on as long as it did without the collaboration of prosecutors?

Re: Crime Lab Scandal Leaves Massachusetts Legal System In Turmoil

#57

Post by judk »

bmelton wrote: post #51
nimble wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Actually, 3-5 years sounds pretty reasonable. If you think about it, you should be glad that she didn't get a crazy "send a message" punishment of 20 years or life in prison. She'll never work in that capacity again, so it's not like there's a need to separate her from society for the protection of society. A better question to address is how a single rogue person could do so much damage. This is institutional failur…

If she were sentenced 1 day's prison time for each of the occurrences, it would add up to ~40,000 days in prison, or ~109 years. I don't disagree that there's an institutional failure, and that perhaps there are others to blame, but she has negligently affected countless lives by disregarding her oaths to uphold the law, and I believe that sort of thing should carry more penalty, not less. Also, we really, really nee…

I suspect the more they pin on her (and the news articles so far have been very much "witchy"), the more they will deflect from the lax oversight in the lab and the collusion of the prosecutors.

Re: Crime Lab Scandal Leaves Massachusetts Legal System In Turmoil

#58

Post by Zigurd »

tokenadult wrote: post #30

Minnesota Public Radio reported often about systemic problems in the St. Paul, Minnesota crime lab over the last few years. http://blogs.mprnews.org/cities/2013/08/st-paul-police-crime... It seems those problems are now mostly cleaned up, and there is no particular implication here that a similar problem exists in the state crime lab, but it is a very good idea for citizens to press law enforcement administrators to…

> It seems those problems are now mostly cleaned up, and there is no particular implication here that a similar problem exists in the state crime lab

Except that the incentives are still massively perverse. It doesn't take an organizational dynamics genius to know it's a safe bet these are not the only two state crime labs with this problem.

Re: Crime Lab Scandal Leaves Massachusetts Legal System In Turmoil

#59

Post by bmelton »

judk wrote: post #57
bmelton wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If she were sentenced 1 day's prison time for each of the occurrences, it would add up to ~40,000 days in prison, or ~109 years. I don't disagree that there's an institutional failure, and that perhaps there are others to blame, but she has negligently affected countless lives by disregarding her oaths to uphold the law, and I believe that sort of thing should carry more penalty, not less. Also, we really, really nee…

I suspect the more they pin on her (and the news articles so far have been very much "witchy"), the more they will deflect from the lax oversight in the lab and the collusion of the prosecutors.

I don't disagree at all. Meanwhile, I'm convinced that the more they don't pin on her, the more it means that they're giving her lenience so that she doesn't roll over and spill details on those institutional failures that they might all have been a part of.

FYI, this post is egregiously oversimplifying, and I deserve ridicule for that, but I'm going to bed -- on a normal day, I wouldn't respond to this for some time.

Re: Crime Lab Scandal Leaves Massachusetts Legal System In Turmoil

#60

Post by girvo »

drjesusphd wrote: post #52
girvo wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is not how the police work nor think about cases, though. One of the many reasons I dislike them.

He's not a cop though, he's a district attorney.

Potato, potahto.

Actually, DA's are even worse as far as I'm concerned. Funny to think I actually studied Law.

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