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Google Shows How To Scale Apps From Zero To One Million RPS, For $10

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Re: Google Shows How To Scale Apps From Zero To One Million RPS, For $10

#51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, but! The impression I get from this 1 million req/s test is that no actual logic is happening on the backend. E.g. no database queries, no business logic, etc - basically a noop call. As we saw when running the techempower benchmarks, simply going from the plaintext test to the single database query dropped the best performer from ~600,000 req/s to ~100,000 req/s. Throw in a bit more business logic, another quer…

This is not the point of the test, the test is about showing you that the load balancer in GCE can handle that many requests per second and with a single IP address. Whatever the machines are doing behind doesn't matter since the load balancer job is to handle a ton of traffic. This is practically the only case in which responding with 1 byte makes sense in the test.

I completely get that. I responded to the parent because he introduced the 20,000 req/s number as a comparison point.

The Google test is both a theoretical max throughput (that one wouldn't reach under basically any normal use case) and a test of the load balancer capabilities. The Netflix 20,000 req/s number is, instead, a real use case example.

My point was that one shouldn't directly compare those numbers and say, for example, that this GCE setup has 50x better throughput than Netflix.

I imagine that if Netflix were to stub all of their API calls with noops that returned 1 byte responses, they would be able to handle significantly more than 20,000 req/s. Basically, I don't think we actually disagree here.

Re: Google Shows How To Scale Apps From Zero To One Million RPS, For $10

#52
post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't forget support. I know I can get decent AWS support if I pay Amazon. Google? HAH!

We actually have come a long way in Support and now offer affordable paid support options and some very high end packages for mission critical operations. Check out https://cloud.google.com/support/packages where we have the details. -Brian Head of Marketing, Google Cloud Platform

Thanks for mentioning that. Google will probably do something unique with support as the demand increases. To the other comments above; yes aws has a wider range of services available at the moment but they've been at this publicly since 2006. There are services within Google used by devs, managers, etc that blow away anything amazon has. There's a projected timeline for the release of a great deal additions to GCE. 2014-2016 will be game changing in the cloud industry.

Re: Google Shows How To Scale Apps From Zero To One Million RPS, For $10

#53

AWS has a really interesting feature in their auto-scaling groups, coupled with their ELB (elastic load balancer). You can configure an auto-scaling group with a variable number of instances that ads or removes instances automatically, based on the ELB's measured latency or the number of requests coming in or many other such metrics. This works out great and results in cost savings, as it can survive spikes, plus dur…

Google Compute added an ELB equivalent (the "GCLB"), but it doesn't have autoscaling built-in.

To get autoscaling, you can either roll your own — Google explains how here[0] —, or use a multicloud autoscaling solution (disclaimer: I work for such a provider).

[0]: https://cloud.google.com/resources/articles/auto-scaling-on-...

Re: Google Shows How To Scale Apps From Zero To One Million RPS, For $10

#54
post #41
post #5

The only reason I can see for this being this high on the front-page [18 points and only one comment(from a googler)] is the google employee block vote (apparently tech-savvy isn't a prerequisite in the google upvote marketing department): 1 million requests per second is 20 times greater than the throughput in last year’s Eurovision Song Contest, which served 125 million users in Europe No, r/s != Gb/s.* (Cue the do…

Throughput is a measure of work over time. So here I was referring to throughput in terms requests per second and not Gb/s. So it was a direct comparison of 1M RPS (Compute Engine Load Balancing) vs 50K RPS (DNS Load Balancing). Anthony F. Voellm Google Cloud Performance Engineering Manager @p3rfguy

To add a bit of context to Anthony's post here (I'm the guy who wrote the blog post on the Eurovision).

GCE Load Balancing uses a single IP address, you can point your DNS there and forget about it.

What Anthony's post shows is that this IP address will be able to serve 1 (upwards?) of 1 million requests per second.

This matters because you have control over scaling your backend (design properly, add more instances), whereas you don't have full control over scaling your frontend.

Indeed, a problem we had during Eurovision was that mobile providers (it was a mobile app) would cache the IPs of our frontend Nginx servers, so scaling those wasn't as easy.

So this new GCLB essentially "solves" scaling your frontend. That's something I'd care about ;)

Hope this helps shed some light here!

Re: Google Shows How To Scale Apps From Zero To One Million RPS, For $10

#55
post #53

AWS has a really interesting feature in their auto-scaling groups, coupled with their ELB (elastic load balancer). You can configure an auto-scaling group with a variable number of instances that ads or removes instances automatically, based on the ELB's measured latency or the number of requests coming in or many other such metrics. This works out great and results in cost savings, as it can survive spikes, plus dur…

Google Compute added an ELB equivalent (the "GCLB"), but it doesn't have autoscaling built-in. To get autoscaling, you can either roll your own — Google explains how here[0] —, or use a multicloud autoscaling solution (disclaimer: I work for such a provider). [0]: https://cloud.google.com/resources/articles/auto-scaling-on-...

Thanks for the link. I wonder how well it works. Did you try implementing it?

Re: Google Shows How To Scale Apps From Zero To One Million RPS, For $10

#56
post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't forget support. I know I can get decent AWS support if I pay Amazon. Google? HAH!

We actually have come a long way in Support and now offer affordable paid support options and some very high end packages for mission critical operations. Check out https://cloud.google.com/support/packages where we have the details. -Brian Head of Marketing, Google Cloud Platform

I know these are entirely different departments, and likely have little correlation to reality.. but google has a worse track record than microsoft for supporting some of their most popular products (iGoogle, Reader, free apps account levels)... it's hard for me to trust services to be around in the long run (this is probably more of an emotional bias here).

I know that there are api compatible systems out there, and one could roll your own (so to speak), it will get very interesting over time. I'm also curious what happens in the application space for docker.io based cloud offerings in the next year.

Re: Google Shows How To Scale Apps From Zero To One Million RPS, For $10

#57
post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Google Compute added an ELB equivalent (the "GCLB"), but it doesn't have autoscaling built-in. To get autoscaling, you can either roll your own — Google explains how here[0] —, or use a multicloud autoscaling solution (disclaimer: I work for such a provider). [0]: https://cloud.google.com/resources/articles/auto-scaling-on-...

Thanks for the link. I wonder how well it works. Did you try implementing it?

Well, that's what our software does too, so I didn't really have an incentive to do so!

Now, judging from how busy the engineers are here, I'd say this is a bit harder than it seems!

Re: Google Shows How To Scale Apps From Zero To One Million RPS, For $10

#58
The cake is a lie, they don't teach howto scale yourself. They teach howto use THEIR infrastructure to scale. I mean it's still really useful to know and all, but the headline makes the impression that Google teaches you howto scale your own company's App from Zero to 1Million RPS.

Re: Google Shows How To Scale Apps From Zero To One Million RPS, For $10

#59

AWS has a really interesting feature in their auto-scaling groups, coupled with their ELB (elastic load balancer). You can configure an auto-scaling group with a variable number of instances that ads or removes instances automatically, based on the ELB's measured latency or the number of requests coming in or many other such metrics. This works out great and results in cost savings, as it can survive spikes, plus dur…

Google's load balancer offering doesn't need to prewarmed was the main point. Its a fair point, having to prewarn ELBs isn't exactly fun, form takes about 10 minutes to fill out. If you're doing TV ads, lots of stuff is last minute. You can prewarm it yourself by throwing artificial traffic at it but you always risk just taking down the ELB if you ramp up to fast. Weird things happen to ELBs if you spike them with big bursts of traffic, one of service providers had 24 hour backlog of web hooks that they sent out all at once. It caused our ELB to fail all the instances even if we brought up new ones. Also during load you can get other sites to show up on your ELB. Had asp.net error page show up on ours. We run rails. Wish amazon would scale up ELBs instances based on the number instances you have behind it using the ratio calculated on past usage.

Re: Google Shows How To Scale Apps From Zero To One Million RPS, For $10

#60
post #48
post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

App Engine is not just a place to run your code. It has a nice deployment system with the ability to flip between versions instantly. It provides a few great pieces of core infrastructure: the datastore, task queues, and memcache (there are many others, but those are the essentials). The SDK gives you a stand-alone development server for testing locally. If you want to build web apps (or a backend for mobile apps), A…

I like App-Engine and now that there are open-source, API compatible alternatives, there is no lock-in to worry about either. The biggest drawback for App Engine is lack of async support. The only ways to scale are: multiple-threads (slow) or multiple instances (costly).

Or you can use Go and get high performance concurrency in a single-threaded instance. The best of both worlds. ;-)
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