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Virgin Galactic to accept Bitcoin [video]

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Re: Virgin Galactic to accept Bitcoin [video]

#51

Post by bunderbunder »

nilkn wrote: post #36
lambda wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, the volatility has been entirely in BTC. Volatility should more accurately be measured against actual real-world goods that you can buy. Since pretty much all actual goods are priced in currencies other than BTC, with the BTC price merely set based on the current exchange rate with the currency that the goods are bought at, it's BTC that's volatile, not the USD. This kind of volatility is actually really harmful…

> It's pretty dumb to actually spend bitcoins if you could just hold onto them A similar question can be asked about USD: why would you ever save it instead of spending it immediately, since it's only going to lose value over time due to inflation? Of course, the difference right now is that the deflation rate in bitcoin is much higher than the inflation rate in USD. But clearly, if bitcoin ever becomes a major curre…

> A similar question can be asked about USD: why would you ever save it instead of spending it immediately, since it's only going to lose value over time due to inflation?

The answer to this question lies at the heart of why economists generally believe a little inflation is better than no inflation nowadays. That little bit of inflation makes it more attractive to invest money in things that increase one's ability to generate money in the future instead of just stuffing it under a mattress. That makes the economy as a whole more vigorous, which means everyone tends to get more wealthy in the long run.

As for deflation in Bitcoin: Since the total number of BTC that can ever exist is asymptotically bounded, but potential economic productivity of a population of humans isn't (as far as we know), there's really only a few scenarios where BTC deflation might level off, and arguably all of them fall under the category of "economic crisis".

Re: Virgin Galactic to accept Bitcoin [video]

#52

Post by JumpCrisscross »

nilkn wrote: post #48
dragonwriter wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> A similar question can be asked about USD: why would you ever save it instead of spending it immediately, since it's only going to lose value over time due to inflation? Except for relatively small amounts for liquidity for known or potential immediate needs, it doesn't make sense to hold US dollars (or any other modern fiat currency), it makes a lot more sense to invest them in productive assets which can be conve…

> What motivation to save USD? Seriously? How about buying a house? Buying a car? Going to college? Going on vacation? ... Most people cannot save up enough for these things overnight, and they aren't going to put their downpayment savings fund into stocks because it's not worth the risk of losing it for them.

Stocks aren't the only investment option. Safer options exist, e.g. corporate bonds, money market funds, and certificates of deposit. All of those are a more productive use of capital than socking it away under a mattress or in a Bitcoin wallet.

Re: Virgin Galactic to accept Bitcoin [video]

#53

Post by JumpCrisscross »

lambda wrote: post #40
nilkn wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's pretty dumb to actually spend bitcoins if you could just hold onto them A similar question can be asked about USD: why would you ever save it instead of spending it immediately, since it's only going to lose value over time due to inflation? Of course, the difference right now is that the deflation rate in bitcoin is much higher than the inflation rate in USD. But clearly, if bitcoin ever becomes a major curre…

Because it loses value slowly enough. That's the whole "stability" part. Holding onto USD for a year or two doesn't lose a significant amount of value, so you can save up effectively and plan on what you will be able to buy with it at the end. And you can put it in an interest bearing bank account or invest it to further offset or counteract the effect of inflation for longer-term savings. Unstable currencies you gen…

> Because it loses value slowly enough

More than that it loses value predictably enough, with an active financial system around it to make and hedge out those predictions for you.

Re: Virgin Galactic to accept Bitcoin [video]

#54

Post by bunderbunder »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #50
drewblaisdell wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Seems no different than if the buyer had sold her Bitcoin and paid Virgin Galactic in cash. I'm not sure if this differs for six-figure transactions, but transacting fiat currency generally costs a vendor ~3%. Receiving bitcoins and immediately converting them back to USD/GBP can be done for less than one percent of the amount of the transaction.

> transacting fiat currency generally costs a vendor ~3% 1. Bitcoin is no less a fiat currency than the U.S. dollar or Japanese yen. 2. For small retail transactions, yes, 3% seems right. Larger transactions, however, are generally done by wire. These transfers carry a fixed fee and are generally a very small percentage of the transaction value.

> 1. Bitcoin is no less a fiat currency than the U.S. dollar or Japanese yen.

Depends on what you mean by "fiat currency", which tends to get used with a few different (if related) meanings. One is "non-backed state-issued currency". Under that definition it isn't. Another is "currency with no intrinsic value". Under that definition it is.

Re: Virgin Galactic to accept Bitcoin [video]

#55

Post by dragonwriter »

nilkn wrote: post #48
dragonwriter wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> A similar question can be asked about USD: why would you ever save it instead of spending it immediately, since it's only going to lose value over time due to inflation? Except for relatively small amounts for liquidity for known or potential immediate needs, it doesn't make sense to hold US dollars (or any other modern fiat currency), it makes a lot more sense to invest them in productive assets which can be conve…

> What motivation to save USD? Seriously? How about buying a house? Buying a car? Going to college? Going on vacation? ... Most people cannot save up enough for these things overnight, and they aren't going to put their downpayment savings fund into stocks because it's not worth the risk of losing it for them.

> Seriously? How about buying a house? Buying a car? Going to college? Going on vacation? ...

In all those cases, saving USD as dollars is generally a suboptimal idea (unless its over a particularly short term, but that gets back to the short-term liquidity, not long-term investment, case.)

Using the dollars to buy investments that are expected to be worth more when converted back to cash is what you usually want to do.

Re: Virgin Galactic to accept Bitcoin [video]

#56

Post by knodi »

the problem is getting BTC in the US. You have to a P2P sale which most likely at some point will lead to you getting scammed. The banks need to offer a currency exchange from USD to BTC. And then bitcoins are going to really take off.

Re: Virgin Galactic to accept Bitcoin [video]

#57

Post by bencoder »

fat0wl wrote: post #22
Angostura wrote: post #21

Sounds to me as if Mr Branson has a bunch of Bitcoin and would like to cash-in early next week.

yeah the fact that the Bitcoin scam is spreading raises eyebrows. Companies want to accept it to sound futuristic but they should really be shutting it down. Notice how none of the tech-giants want to get involved with it. Bitcoin isn't for the technologically advanced who are "being rewarded for being sooooo smart and adopting early", it's a scammer platform. I heard a suggestion for a gold-backed digital currency o…

What about counterparty risk? With eGoldCoin, you have to trust the issuer to actually have the gold that's backing the coins in circulation, and to never make any more than 100k eGoldCoin.

Bitcoin may not be backed by anything, but the fact that it can't be counterfeited or inflated gives it very interesting properties.

Re: Virgin Galactic to accept Bitcoin [video]

#58

Post by fat0wl »

iand wrote: post #43
fat0wl wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not that I am against virtual currency and think there is no interest in it -- I just think the Bitcoin scheme is so f__ked that respected corps don't wanna be involved. I'm not surprised at all that Google invested in an alternative. In fact, maybe that will catalyze Bitcoin's demise.

You are mistaken if you think it's an alternative. From their site: "Buttercoin is a free, white-label bitcoin exchange"

eh true i didn't click the link i assumed from the name since there are so many wannabes showing up.

But again, it doesn't look like Google is accepting Bitcoin in exchange for their services. They just invested in a company that is going to try to make cash skimming transaction fees off the ecosystem and probably converting to USD.

Re: Virgin Galactic to accept Bitcoin [video]

#59

Post by nilkn »

dragonwriter wrote: post #55
nilkn wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What motivation to save USD? Seriously? How about buying a house? Buying a car? Going to college? Going on vacation? ... Most people cannot save up enough for these things overnight, and they aren't going to put their downpayment savings fund into stocks because it's not worth the risk of losing it for them.

> Seriously? How about buying a house? Buying a car? Going to college? Going on vacation? ... In all those cases, saving USD as dollars is generally a suboptimal idea (unless its over a particularly short term, but that gets back to the short-term liquidity, not long-term investment, case.) Using the dollars to buy investments that are expected to be worth more when converted back to cash is what you usually want to…

That's a fine idea, but few people will do that in practice because they don't want any risk at all in losing the money they're saving for those things. People generally invest for the very long-term, like retirement, not for things like house downpayments.

Re: Virgin Galactic to accept Bitcoin [video]

#60

Post by VMG »

fat0wl wrote: post #32
VMG wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I heard a suggestion for a gold-backed digital currency once. I think you fell for a joke.

Think about it man, if the Bitcoin delusion ends it is worth nothing. In a gold-backed online currency if it failed the users could just be beneficiaries of the trust. I'm not saying this is the ideal solution because I think maybe a completely fiat digital currency COULD work, just not with the Bitcoin scheme. And I'm not saying Bitcoin can't work in the long-run. I'm saying it's not working NOW. It is not performin…

You don't understand the point of Bitcoin. There can't be a decentralized digital currency that is backed by real-world assets. Who guarantees that you're Egoldcoin is worth an ounce of gold?
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