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Jury: Samsung Owes Apple Another $290 Million

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Re: Jury: Samsung Owes Apple Another $290 Million

#51

Post by bitcrusher »

emn13 wrote: post #43
bitcrusher wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I seriously can't believe that there is an entire sub-culture of people that are still trollololing about 'rounded corners' without understanding the context. Design Patents are Different than Technology Patents.

In sort of the way chemical weapons are different from nuclear weapons? Indeed, they're quite different, yet the world would still be a better place without them.

Even non-lethal chemical weapons? /pedant

I'm not arguing for or against patents (personally, I think they're an abomination), only against 'group think' from people choosing a 'team' and then using propaganda to reinforce their positions.

Re: Jury: Samsung Owes Apple Another $290 Million

#52

Post by josephlord »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #48
stevenwei wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, it's not like they went screen by screen through the iPhone and said 'hey, we need to do what they're doing...' http://www.scribd.com/doc/102317767/Samsung-Relative-Evaluat...

Apple got a presidential pardon for its IP transgressions vis-à-vis Samsung. That's what makes this seem unfair. http://www.ustr.gov/sites/default/files/08032013%20Letter_1....

It was not a pardon but a dismissal of an injunction, Samsung can still get paid appropriate royalties by a Federal Court (the FTC's only sanction is an import ban so it would need to be a separate action)

Samsung promised to license those on FRAND terms, Apple will pay what a court sets as FRAND rate. An injunction in such circumstances would probably be a illegal anti-competitive action (at least that is the EU view and that of many US organisations too).

Also there is currently no injunction in this case against Samsung at this point.

Note that in the absence of rules including FRAND licensing commitments standards setting bodies would be illegal trusts which is why this is especially relevant.

Re: Jury: Samsung Owes Apple Another $290 Million

#53

Post by gamblor956 »

WildUtah wrote: post #49
aroch wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The first judgement was cut to $639mm [1] Q: How much money is this retrial about? A: It's about a replacement amount for a $410 million portion of the August 2012 $1.049 billion verdict. The replacement amount could be more or less than the original one. Apple will be awarded (subject to an appeal) $639 million plus the replacement amount. __ 1: http://www.fosspatents.com/2013/11/the-truth-is-neither-cour...

FOSSpatents is not a legitimate source of news on patent cases. The writer was revealed to be a paid shill available to the highest bidder during the Google v. Oracle trial when the judge forced Oracle to admit supporting his site as a false front.

If you're going to slander someone, you should definitely provide a source.

Re: Jury: Samsung Owes Apple Another $290 Million

#54

Post by josephlord »

narcissus wrote: post #41

Completely off topic, but it's days like these that I truly miss Groklaw...

It was never as good with the patent issues especially when Google were involved it never felt balanced (with SCO there really wasn't any need for balance or bias as SCO were so far out there you could report it straight and still have clear bad guys).

Re: Jury: Samsung Owes Apple Another $290 Million

#55

Post by aroch »

WildUtah wrote: post #49
aroch wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The first judgement was cut to $639mm [1] Q: How much money is this retrial about? A: It's about a replacement amount for a $410 million portion of the August 2012 $1.049 billion verdict. The replacement amount could be more or less than the original one. Apple will be awarded (subject to an appeal) $639 million plus the replacement amount. __ 1: http://www.fosspatents.com/2013/11/the-truth-is-neither-cour...

FOSSpatents is not a legitimate source of news on patent cases. The writer was revealed to be a paid shill available to the highest bidder during the Google v. Oracle trial when the judge forced Oracle to admit supporting his site as a false front.

FOSS is a a good if not great source for mobile patent litigation. Yes, he accepted money from Oracle because he's a goddamn consultant and does the blog to promote both his work and general knowledge. Florian's opinions have turned out to be correct most of the times; he has his finger firmly on the pulse of mobile patent litigation and covers it better than any other person.

Re: Jury: Samsung Owes Apple Another $290 Million

#56

Post by pazimzadeh »

stevenwei wrote: post #9
josteink wrote: post #4

I seriously can't believe how much money Apple has been able to troll out of those rounded corners and that end-of-list overscroll effect. And now, to top it off, iOS 7 is built on the holo-principles of Android. It's almost like Apple is doing it merely to taunt its foreign competitors, saying very, very clearly: "Sorry guys. I'm untouchable". Utterly disgusting. At least their attempts to outright ban products have…

Yeah, it's not like they went screen by screen through the iPhone and said 'hey, we need to do what they're doing...' http://www.scribd.com/doc/102317767/Samsung-Relative-Evaluat...

Number 108 is my favorite: http://cl.ly/SbXa "Fun factor is created."

Re: Jury: Samsung Owes Apple Another $290 Million

#57

Post by josephlord »

josteink wrote: post #4

I seriously can't believe how much money Apple has been able to troll out of those rounded corners and that end-of-list overscroll effect. And now, to top it off, iOS 7 is built on the holo-principles of Android. It's almost like Apple is doing it merely to taunt its foreign competitors, saying very, very clearly: "Sorry guys. I'm untouchable". Utterly disgusting. At least their attempts to outright ban products have…

If illegally copying those things and being more iPhone like than other Android devices had any bearing on Samsung getting their current market position then it was a bargain even at a billion dollars. Apple and Samsung are both raking in billions every quarter; you have to consider the market size when considering the appropriate penalty.

Also note that both sides had many more patents that they thought applied but had to be selective and discard many early in the case. They got to choose the most promising ones but it is hit and miss. There may be many more patents that would actually have applied.

Re: Jury: Samsung Owes Apple Another $290 Million

#58

Post by patrickaljord »

rayiner wrote: post #42
patrickaljord wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At this point, for most people watching this from outside of the US, it looks like protectionism racket disguised as a legal verdict. Samsung is eating Apple's lunch and the US is trying to stop that. The US gov keeps pushing for more free market worldwide (which is great), except that when one of its industries or great companies is in danger because of international competition, protectionism is the way. How can th…

It's not protectionism, but rather an attempt to enforce particular rules of the game in the face of changing economic profiles. In a nutshell, American IP policy is predicated on the understanding that the production of IP is America's competitive advantage. The U.S. can't compete with asian countries for low-cost manufacturing, but still dominates when it comes to software, design, etc. There is a reason phones des…

How come Samsung has lost all their software patent lawsuits against Apple in the US while they won in South Korea? Get real.

Re: Jury: Samsung Owes Apple Another $290 Million

#59

Post by WildUtah »

josephlord wrote: post #54
narcissus wrote: post #41

Completely off topic, but it's days like these that I truly miss Groklaw...

It was never as good with the patent issues especially when Google were involved it never felt balanced (with SCO there really wasn't any need for balance or bias as SCO were so far out there you could report it straight and still have clear bad guys).

It was fine for Oracle v. Google as reporting that one straight provided an obvious bad guy, too.

And Samsung v. Apple I also provides many obvious bad guys if you follow the case and understand the industry and read the patents. Apple's claims are garbage but Samsung had so much contempt for the process that they let their lawyers utterly fail to make the case. The judge lost control of the case and ended up with vague and useless jury instructions and a self-contradictory verdict (parts had to be retried recently). The jury foreman admitted to bias and misconduct in public interviews. The PTO keeps gyrating back and forth in 'final' decisions about the validity and meaning of claims to patents at issue. I never saw coverage anywhere else but Groklaw about most of the pathetic failures in the case.

Let's hope the Apple ][ and Apple /// cases are handled better.

The Motorola v. Microsoft case, on the other hand, revealed bizarre bias on the part of Groklaw. Even when Microsoft was obviously right, Groklaw manufactured sympathy for Googlerola on every issue.

But that's not really the question. The essential thing about Groklaw was that they would recruit volunteer reporters to go to court and make extensive and informative reports about what really happened they very same day. Nobody else's reporting ever came close.

Re: Jury: Samsung Owes Apple Another $290 Million

#60

Post by stevenwei »

pazimzadeh wrote: post #56
stevenwei wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, it's not like they went screen by screen through the iPhone and said 'hey, we need to do what they're doing...' http://www.scribd.com/doc/102317767/Samsung-Relative-Evaluat...

Number 108 is my favorite: http://cl.ly/SbXa "Fun factor is created."

It's actually interesting to me to look at those slides and see just how far Android has come along in the past few years.

There are some really awful mistakes in those slides, like buttons being cut off when the keyboard pops up, or things breaking when you rotate the phone.

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