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Ph.D. 2.0: Rethinking the Ph.D. Application

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Re: Ph.D. 2.0: Rethinking the Ph.D. Application

#51

Post by zura »

bkamapantula wrote: post #38
zura wrote: post #27

I'm still waiting for a REMOTE PhD position :)

I doubt if it would happen at all. I'm a full time Ph.D. student. You might, of course, know that professors interact with the students very often (except if the professor is super busy always). I interact with mine almost every day. I do work with couple of collaborators in different countries. That is because my advisor knows them in-person before deciding to collaborate. I work with lab colleagues frequently. Remo…

Right, that is the difference between PhD in USA versus mainland Europe - where PhD is regarded as a regular salaried job (albeit very low-paying). Basically, after some intro time with the professor, you're really on your own. Interactions happen, but nothing that can't be done remotely.

Re: Ph.D. 2.0: Rethinking the Ph.D. Application

#52

Post by gms7777 »

mattgreenrocks wrote: post #16
DrSpock wrote: post #6

Hmmm. This is an interesting spin the Brown Professor has taken on the PhD application process. For those interested in a career in research and development, a PhD is almost a must. Getting on to a prestigious PhD programme is incredibly competitive, and as someone who has gone through the whole process and seen it from both sides, I can say that I've seen individuals who'd make great computer science researchers not…

Do you have any thoughts on how to get started on this road? I feel like I missed the boat sometimes, though I'm using doing interesting-ish work professionally and in open source. I'm not interested in chasing the framework-of-the-week, I want to work on tools that advance how we think about software. This may be something I do later in life, but I feel very wired for R&D + tooling, and a bit locked out of these typ…

Its never too late to get started down the PhD road. At least in my department, most PhD canidates aren't fresh out of school, they've usually taken at least a year or two and worked in industry of some sort and then applied.

My own experience: I had had no research experience in school and worked in industry for a bit before decided that it bored me to death, but I felt shut out from PhDs at the time. I started looking into research that might be interesting and sent out a bunch of emails to professors at universities explaining who I was, my goals and asking if they were looking for a research tech or anything. I probably sent out like 30 letters, got a handful or responses. I took a bit of a pay cut, but I got a fantastic job that I loved as a research programmer for a professor. I worked there for a while, worked on some interesting research, read a ton of papers, got a handful of co-authors on papers, and then was able to apply to grad programs with a strong application.

Re: Ph.D. 2.0: Rethinking the Ph.D. Application

#53

Post by rmk2 »

zura wrote: post #51
bkamapantula wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I doubt if it would happen at all. I'm a full time Ph.D. student. You might, of course, know that professors interact with the students very often (except if the professor is super busy always). I interact with mine almost every day. I do work with couple of collaborators in different countries. That is because my advisor knows them in-person before deciding to collaborate. I work with lab colleagues frequently. Remo…

Right, that is the difference between PhD in USA versus mainland Europe - where PhD is regarded as a regular salaried job (albeit very low-paying). Basically, after some intro time with the professor, you're really on your own. Interactions happen, but nothing that can't be done remotely.

If you work remotely, there is a good chance you will be left out. Of course, "interaction" can be done remotely. But many other things cannot. Showing your face every now and then around other people is quite important. Somebody is organising a seminar? Somebody is organising a conference? Somebody is looking for someone to teach a couple of their lessons? If you are the person that never shows up, you will be the person who won't get asked, simply because you have no connection to other people. Who am I going to ask if I want to organise something? The person I have never seen and who I know nothing about, or the person I've met, where I can gauge what they are working on, whether I get along with them, what they are interested in and what their plans and goals are?

"Disclaimer": I'm not in STEM

Re: Ph.D. 2.0: Rethinking the Ph.D. Application

#54

Post by smoyer »

That sounds right up my alley! I'm currently tracking the geolocation of computer science professors by tracking the gaze of the NSA's agents who are watching them through the myriad of security cameras in our country.

My academic resume isn't going to get me noticed for a PhD program but it sounds like someone is finally looking at ability (I had great scores on the Computer Science GRE in 1990, but they apparently only last five years and that test has been discontinued)!

Re: Ph.D. 2.0: Rethinking the Ph.D. Application

#55

Post by zerr »

jrs99 wrote: post #49
jchendy wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It completely depends on what area you're going into. Software engineering, systems, and AI students obviously need significant coding experience. HCI and theory (ie math), not as much.

i don't think it depends what area. almost every single person in all of those fields will have done some coding before. Even if that means cs 101

Right, but what I wanted to highlight - a person might be able to code quick sort algorithm or breadth first search, but unable to get paid doing real world coding - when it is the client or employer who needs to be satisfied.

So basically when you have a choice of being unemployed vs doing PhD and getting some studentship, you obviously prefer the latter path.

And I believe there are quite many people who can "code" but unable to get paid.

Re: Ph.D. 2.0: Rethinking the Ph.D. Application

#56

Post by dominotw »

zerr wrote: post #8
brucehart wrote: post #4

I'm surprised that admission into Computer Science PhD programs is so competitive. I would think that with the strong job market for computer scientists, there would not be as many students who would want to make the commitment to a PhD program over other job and entrepreneurial opportunities.

I believe someone who is not a good software engineer or even can't code at all, can still be admitted into some CS PhD program.

How about theoretical computer science? That probably doesn't need one to be a good software engineer.

Re: Ph.D. 2.0: Rethinking the Ph.D. Application

#57

Post by tanzam75 »

elemeno wrote: post #22
tanzam75 wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For those interested in a career in development, a PhD is rarely helpful. For the PhD candidate, it can even be counterproductive, as any gains in initial salary will be more than offset by the lost salary during the 5-6 years of the PhD. Only for a career in research is a PhD important.

The parent comment should probably be read as 'research and development' - working for IBM's research arm, Microsoft Research etc.

And I read it as exactly that.

I was pointing out that the PhD is useful for "research", but not for research "and development."

Re: Ph.D. 2.0: Rethinking the Ph.D. Application

#58

Post by HelloMcFly »

segmondy wrote: post #32
tjr wrote: post #2

An offer letter from Google or YCombinator (where you are the tech co-founder) which serves as evidence that you passed a challenging programming interview at Google, or that YCombinator believed you would be successful at developing your company product. Interesting. Because I have no intention of moving to a Google or YCombinator location, I never applied to either, but this makes me wonder if merely having been of…

Of course. I have no intention of moving to Cali, but one thing I do plan to do when I go to vacation West next year is to apply to Google, possibly Facebook or/and Amazon. If I get the offer letter, I can frame it and use it as negotiating tactic here in the midwest. It's almost as good as saying "I worked at Google"

Unlike employment, there's very little to stop this probably-currently-useful tactic from being rendered valueless by fakers.

Re: Ph.D. 2.0: Rethinking the Ph.D. Application

#59

Post by HarryHirsch »

mcguire wrote: post #39
brucehart wrote: post #4

I'm surprised that admission into Computer Science PhD programs is so competitive. I would think that with the strong job market for computer scientists, there would not be as many students who would want to make the commitment to a PhD program over other job and entrepreneurial opportunities.

I am not surprised that it is competitive (PhD's in general are kind of oversupplied), but the form the competition takes: "Maybe you didn't publish as an undergraduate.... Maybe you can't even write a very compelling research statement yet." When I was applying, no undergraduates had published research. And the "research statement" could hardly be described as "compelling"; that was one of the points of the breadth…

It's a positive development that admission into a decent PhD program requires research experience. Some people somehow cannot make the jump from classroom exercises to production work, and you would rather that they don't get accepted, instead of having to throw them out a year later.

Besides, a research lab is a workplace after all, and some kids are completely missing the social skills that are needed in a working environment. You can't have that sort in a PhD program either.

Re: Ph.D. 2.0: Rethinking the Ph.D. Application

#60

Post by trentmb »

mcguire wrote: post #39
brucehart wrote: post #4

I'm surprised that admission into Computer Science PhD programs is so competitive. I would think that with the strong job market for computer scientists, there would not be as many students who would want to make the commitment to a PhD program over other job and entrepreneurial opportunities.

I am not surprised that it is competitive (PhD's in general are kind of oversupplied), but the form the competition takes: "Maybe you didn't publish as an undergraduate.... Maybe you can't even write a very compelling research statement yet." When I was applying, no undergraduates had published research. And the "research statement" could hardly be described as "compelling"; that was one of the points of the breadth…

It feels like requiring 5+ years of experience in entry level positions...
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