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Kofi Annan: Stop 'war on drugs'

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Re: Kofi Annan: Stop 'war on drugs'

#51

Post by dreamdu5t »

bambax wrote: post #34
dreamdu5t wrote: post #20

Kofi Annan does not have any prerogative to tell me or others what to do with their own bodies. Fuck the UN and Kofi Annan.

The article isn't about "your body" (about which I'd rather know as little as possible); it's about the so-called "war on drugs" (which is actually a war on the poor). Did you read the article before commenting?

Yes I read the article. The UN asserts the authority to interfere with what other people do to their own bodies and with their own property (drug use, manufacture, and consumption). This comes from "The Single Convention on Narcotic Drugs" and later "The United Nations Convention Against Illicit Traffic in Narcotic Drugs and Psychotropic Substances." The UN, including Kofi Annon, is used as an instrument by the US to further US drug policy.

The Global Commission on Drug Policy and its recommendations are nothing more than a ruse.

Re: Kofi Annan: Stop 'war on drugs'

#53

Post by declan »

MichaelGG wrote: post #36
nicholassmith wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not really, whilst you'd lose some in enforcement you'd still need to police for blackmarket knock off product. You'd also create jobs in administrating the sales, production and supply chain etc.

The DEA has a budget of nearly $3BN. I doubt that money would go to the same types of jobs or companies if Bayer and Pfizer and others were licensed to sell Morphine and Amphetamines to the public. Seems like the FDA might get some more work, there'd be a bit larger need for customs inspections. But enforcement would go way down, especially without diversion control. How much money and weapons are used in protecting…

Yep. But that may be understanding the case. If you're part of the anti-drug-war-industrial-complex, the worse thing in the world would be for enforcement to "go way down."

Look at state and local cops, federal prison guards and the BOP, state and local prison guards, federal prosecutors, state and local prosecutors, privately owned prisons operated under contract, government employee unions, state and local police departments receiving billions in tax dollars via "drug war" grants and gear from FedGov, companies manufacturing battering rams for those 4am no-knock SWAT drug raids, etc. Let's not forget the U.S. military and border police.

At least at the federal level, over half of prisoners are there for "drug offenses": http://www.bop.gov/news/quick.jsp

What would happen to all those jobs if non-violent "drug offenders" were released from prison? That would be a tragedy, really.

Re: Kofi Annan: Stop 'war on drugs'

#55

Post by Bsharp »

7952 wrote: post #41
pstuart wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I care what the law has to say regarding heroin. Legalize it, regulate it just like alcohol. Being illegal didn't keep my brother from becoming addicted and dying from it. If it was legal and pure he might have had a chance. But on the other hand, nobody is trying to outlaw tobacco and alcohol, which are the biggest killers of all. Thats what did my mom in. So yes, legalize it and keep it pure. Educate people on prop…

A concern is that the practicalities of such a legalization would just make things worse. It could make it much easier for children to get hold of. You would also need to define what is "pure" and police that for an endless list of possible products. It is difficult enough to keep salmonella out of food, effective regulation of cannabis sounds impossible. Any regulation would need to be sufficiently loose that you do…

> It could make it much easier for children to get hold of.

There are currently no age restrictions on heroin. All a child needs is a morally-bankrupt drug dealer, which imo is easier than finding a morally-bankrupt store clerk if it were legal.

> You would also need to define what is "pure" and police that for an endless list of possible products.

'Pure' can be easily defined, and it doesn't have to be 'pure' anyway, just not increasingly harmful - beer isn't pure alcohol, McDonald's burgers aren't pure beef, etc.

> It is difficult enough to keep salmonella out of food, effective regulation of cannabis sounds impossible. Any regulation would need to be sufficiently loose that you do not need a black market.

Comparing keeping salmonella out of food to keeping drugs clean is apples and oranges - they're entirely different problems. Also, given the insane markup drugs are subject to today, primarily due to the risk of distribution, prices would fall with regulation, and imo enough to undercut any current black market. Also, the quality could be better or worse, but you know it would be safe.

Re: Kofi Annan: Stop 'war on drugs'

#56

Post by rayiner »

legutierr wrote: post #46
rayiner wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You've vastly misjudged the battlefield. Among actual voters, the drug war is still seen favorably.

I'd love to know where I could find the stats on actual support that drug war policies have. Although I'm sure that majorities exist opposing outright legalization, I think that the people who support "drug war" policies as they are currently implemented are in the minority. The way the question is posed to people can have a big effect on support. For instance, saying, "The war on drugs is counter-productive because…

> Although I'm sure that majorities exist opposing outright legalization, I think that the people who support "drug war" policies as they are currently implemented are in the minority.

Remember, the relevant population here is the population of voters, not the population as a whole. Voters skew older and suburban/rural.

Re: Kofi Annan: Stop 'war on drugs'

#57

Post by blisterpeanuts »

oh_sigh wrote: post #10

I love how whenever a major world leader comes out against the war on drugs, it is always after they are out of office and generally retired from political life.

I'm glad Kofi Annan is doing this. I've long felt that the war on drugs has backfired, much as the U.S. Prohibition on Alcohol did. Both efforts gave rise to rich, powerful crime syndicates that inflicted untold misery and suffering on the people these laws were designed to protect.

For a fraction of the cost of drug enforcement, we could fund drug treatment facilities to help people get off meth, crack, heroin, etc., and meanwhile allow marijuana to become a taxable commodity like cigarettes.

There are no perfect solutions obviously but the war on drugs has proven to be probably the worst of the lot.

Re: Kofi Annan: Stop 'war on drugs'

#58

Post by 7952 »

jack-r-abbit wrote: post #48
7952 wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A concern is that the practicalities of such a legalization would just make things worse. It could make it much easier for children to get hold of. You would also need to define what is "pure" and police that for an endless list of possible products. It is difficult enough to keep salmonella out of food, effective regulation of cannabis sounds impossible. Any regulation would need to be sufficiently loose that you do…

We already have two very good examples of regulating a legal drug with little or no black market: Tobacco & Alcohol I think many of the things we've learned with regulating those drugs could be applied to a lot of other drugs.

Both tobacco and alcohol have sizable black markets, mostly as a way to avoid tax.

Re: Kofi Annan: Stop 'war on drugs'

#59

Post by vkou »

blisterpeanuts wrote: post #57
oh_sigh wrote: post #10

I love how whenever a major world leader comes out against the war on drugs, it is always after they are out of office and generally retired from political life.

I'm glad Kofi Annan is doing this. I've long felt that the war on drugs has backfired, much as the U.S. Prohibition on Alcohol did. Both efforts gave rise to rich, powerful crime syndicates that inflicted untold misery and suffering on the people these laws were designed to protect. For a fraction of the cost of drug enforcement, we could fund drug treatment facilities to help people get off meth, crack, heroin, etc.…

Given that both drug prohibition and the War on Drugs both started as highly racist policies, it seems to be working as intended.

Re: Kofi Annan: Stop 'war on drugs'

#60

Post by proksoup »

rayiner wrote: post #24
mildtrepidation wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While I agree with this, it's exactly the reason many governments right now get almost nothing done (and what they do get done is awful): People in power who care more about their job security than their -- or anyone else's -- principles. A politician's career should be based on reconciling principle with reality. Their livelihood should be linked directly to their ability to do this successfully. That comes with a c…

It's more complicated than that. Politicians have a limited amount of political capital, and in American politics even getting little things done requires spending a lot of it. Obama put up some huge numbers and ultimately spent all his political capital just doing two things: 1) getting us out of Iraq; and 2) passing the Affordable Care Act. Ending the drug war is important to some people, but there are tons of peop…

Support the drug war ... for moral reasons?

That mother showing pictures of her 4 missing boys in the article this thread is about, I think she would argue the war is immoral.

I think the people who think the drug war is moral, would change their mind if they spent more than 30 seconds thinking about it.

Baffles my mind, and when pressed in person, even pious blowhards admit there are serious violent death problems with their methods --- but the people who support them seem totally oblivious to the violent oppressive death that their war causes.

How the fuck is it a moral war?

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