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Jobs had liver transplant 2 months ago; expected to return to work as planned

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Re: Jobs had liver transplant 2 months ago; expected to return to work as planned

#51

Post by jodrellblank »

ComputerGuru wrote: post #35

Smart that this comes out today. Yesterday, Apple's stocks jumped up 53% with the release of the new iPhone and it proved that investor's feel good about the prospects of an Apple without Jobs at its helm day-in, day-out. If this article had come out before, I think Apple would've taken a hit.

Yesterday, Apple's stocks jumped up 53% with the release of the new iPhone

Link? http://www.google.co.uk/finance?q=aapl suggests it hasn't broken out of 130-140 in quite a few days. Particularly not jumping to > 200 yesterday.

Re: Jobs had liver transplant 2 months ago; expected to return to work as planned

#52

Post by stcredzero »

noonespecial wrote: post #23
mynameishere wrote: post #12

Reminds me of the fact fame and fortune aren't worth much compared with health. I wouldn't trade places with him [...takes another sip of wine.]

"There is no justice, there is only me!" - Death, Discworld, Terry Pratchett

My email sig:

    There's neither heaven nor hell,
    save what we grant ourselves.
    There's neither fairness nor justice,
    save what we grant each other.

Re: Jobs had liver transplant 2 months ago; expected to return to work as planned

#53

Post by zimbabwe »

thras wrote: post #46
zimbabwe wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've developed my own code of ethics, which says... that Steve Jobs is a better man than most of us will ever be. He pursued the things he was curious in, made sophisticated pieces of technology readily available for consumers, was enough of an asshole not to have to conform much of his work to standards he couldn't bear to conform to, developed enough business acumen to deal with lots of people he probably didn't wa…

That's funny, because I always had the impression that on a personal scale he was an asshole to his friends and strangers. But yeah, I like my iPhone.

From everything I've heard of him that's right. I don't know, maybe it's just me, but I rarely judge people on their personality. I know nice guys that are absolute shits, just as I know one or two nice guys that are incredible people. Similarly, most assholes are just assholes, but some are very brilliant people with short fuses. I've found that of the people I associate with, the least consistent variable is personality, and I find that as I grow older I lose ties more and more with the people I only liked because of how they acted. Those cliques dissolve to make way for groups of people united by interest and motivation, where personality's got less to do with it.

(I also find, incidentally, that the more ambitious your goals the more likely you are to be an asshole. Jobs is certainly the archetype again. But on the other hand you've got great people like Jeff Bezos, so I don't agree with the folk that think assholery leads automatically to greatness.)

Re: Jobs had liver transplant 2 months ago; expected to return to work as planned

#54

Post by zimbabwe »

stcredzero wrote: post #50
thras wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's funny, because I always had the impression that on a personal scale he was an asshole to his friends and strangers. But yeah, I like my iPhone.

Unfortunately, lots of individualist philosophies are used by people to justify their own asshole behavior. Note that this doesn't necessarily diminish the validity of the philosophy itself. How often is it necessary to bruise the feelings of others to be true to yourself? Just about never, in my experience. There are lots of occasions in The Fountainhead where others feelings are bruised, but this is their jealousy…

Citing The Fountainhead - not exactly the best way to make an argument. I'm a supporter of Rand and her ideals but her writing regarding human relationships is detached from reality.

Re: Jobs had liver transplant 2 months ago; expected to return to work as planned

#55

Post by iron_ball »

mynameishere wrote: post #12

Reminds me of the fact fame and fortune aren't worth much compared with health. I wouldn't trade places with him [...takes another sip of wine.]

Look into the difficulty of securing a liver transplant.

Fame and fortune can directly purchase health.

Re: Jobs had liver transplant 2 months ago; expected to return to work as planned

#57

Post by stcredzero »

zimbabwe wrote: post #54
stcredzero wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unfortunately, lots of individualist philosophies are used by people to justify their own asshole behavior. Note that this doesn't necessarily diminish the validity of the philosophy itself. How often is it necessary to bruise the feelings of others to be true to yourself? Just about never, in my experience. There are lots of occasions in The Fountainhead where others feelings are bruised, but this is their jealousy…

Citing The Fountainhead - not exactly the best way to make an argument. I'm a supporter of Rand and her ideals but her writing regarding human relationships is detached from reality.

I'm not making an argument. I'm making hazy observations based on feelings.

Everyone knows people who are their own people, but who do not impose on others. If asked, they will tell you. If pressed, they will stand up for themselves. But they sometimes show restraint where others might take the opportunity to "count coup."

It's also possible to be your own person and stand up for yourself while being abrasive, suffering no fools, and keeping everyone around you on edge. There's also a whole spectrum in between.

If my observations about certain subscribers to individualist philosophy bothers you, I suggest that might be salient data. You have far better access to additional data than I for evaluating that.

I find Objectivism, from what I know of it, to be remarkably self-consistent. It is an admirable product of its time. Some of what Ayn Rand said needs to be modified in the face of new evidence from evolutionary biology and neuroscience. (Humans clearly do have instincts.) A sign of a healthy philosophy is its ability to incorporate such new data.

Re: Jobs had liver transplant 2 months ago; expected to return to work as planned

#58

Post by gizmo »

jodrellblank wrote: post #49
gizmo wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why should we rise above it? What's wrong with estimating somebody's worth in dollars?

If I have a widget that I'll sell to you for $4 then it's worth $4 to me. If you'll only pay $2 for it then it's worth $2 to you. To whom is a human worth money? You can't own people, can't buy or sell them. Can't recreate them, can't even get an accurate clone. You can talk about a sportsperson's value to their team in terms of how much money they bring in in ticket sales, how much sponsorship, how much media attent…

It doesn't need to be that complex.

For every million dollars the government puts into hospitals/medicare a bunch of lives are saved. There are diminishing returns, however, and at some point you have to say, okay, that's enough, let's put some money into education instead.

You have to find some kind of balance, and the more you put in education the fewer lives you can save in hospitals. The only sensible way (I can think of) to find the right balance is by crunching the numbers. Saving a life for $1000? That's only 20 text books, definitely a good deal. Saving a life for a million? That's 20 scholarships. A life isn't worth that much.

Unless you're Steve.

Re: Jobs had liver transplant 2 months ago; expected to return to work as planned

#59

Post by zackattack »

demallien wrote: post #40
mixmax wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, as the saying goes: "If you invite the press for the wedding they will also cover the divorce" Steve Jobs invited the press to the wedding.

Out of curiousity, what are your examples of Jobs inviting people into his private life? From where I stand, he's always been very demanding about the need to keep his private life private. Apple does not rely on Jobs' public profile for success. Yes, they do rely on his ability as a driver of innovation, but if Jobs were never to say a word in public again, it wouldn't seem to hurt Apple (at least, that's my opinion…

Your "opinion" is wrong. Apple's stock price is extremely correlated to Jobs' public profile.

e.g. http://news.cnet.com/8301-13579_3-10057521-37.html e.g. http://www.businessinsider.com/2009/1/so-apple-lied-about-st...

Re: Jobs had liver transplant 2 months ago; expected to return to work as planned

#60

Post by gojomo »

demallien wrote: post #40
mixmax wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, as the saying goes: "If you invite the press for the wedding they will also cover the divorce" Steve Jobs invited the press to the wedding.

Out of curiousity, what are your examples of Jobs inviting people into his private life? From where I stand, he's always been very demanding about the need to keep his private life private. Apple does not rely on Jobs' public profile for success. Yes, they do rely on his ability as a driver of innovation, but if Jobs were never to say a word in public again, it wouldn't seem to hurt Apple (at least, that's my opinion…

I wouldn't say Jobs has been "inviting people into his private life". He has remained fairly private.

I did say "he's granted the media many levels of access, from photos through interviews, to boost his products." Just look at all the magazine covers he's had. The accompanying stories always mix a little of the personal biography -- the arc of his life -- with the product/business news of the day.

But also, consider the 2005 commencement speech he gave -- which I wouldn't attribute to simple PR machinations for Apple, but because a distinguished public person was invited to talk, and wanted to share his insights with the future. He talked about the circumstances of his birth and adoption as a baby; his college years; his exile from Apple; his pancreatic cancer diagnosis and surgery. That is, his life story, as it could help elucidate life choices for others.

The story continues; we're still curious. While it's wrong to pry illegally into private records, and it's wrong to hound him (or his non-public family) about these things, it's natural and keeping with the usual and fair treatment of a public figure to relay major new developments in his life story.

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