Confessions of a Drone Warrior • Hacker News Board

Re: Confessions of a Drone Warrior

#51

Post by olympus » Sat, Oct 26, 2013, 6:04 PM UTC

alcuadrado wrote: post #6

hughlomas wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think that they are latency sensitive operations. I can't think of roles they fulfill that even a 1 second latency would affect.

Missiles? What if in that 1-second latency a car full of innocent people appear and they get killed?

It's not so much a latency issue but a field of view issue. Cars don't really go that fast and you'll see them coming way ahead of time as long as your camera is zoomed out far enough. There are procedures in place to reduce the amount of stuff like this happening, but they haven't always been in place and they don't work 100%. But it's not like it's an issue that nobody has ever thought of, it was happening even before the rise of the drones: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grdelica_train_bombing

Re: Confessions of a Drone Warrior

#52

Post by anologwintermut » Sat, Oct 26, 2013, 6:05 PM UTC

jafaku wrote: post #33

bane wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Congratulations, you've just described all warfare outside of civil conflicts as terrorist attacks. All non-civil wars involved killing distant people in a foreign country.

You skipped the part where he said "declared war". We have international laws and convention nowadays. But certain country is ignoring them just because it can.

What would fighting in a declared war against a non-nation state change with drones? Sure, it might change the situation with gitmo and black sites, but collateral damage when striking "military targets" isn't illegal.

Re: Confessions of a Drone Warrior

#53

Post by Sagat » Sat, Oct 26, 2013, 6:10 PM UTC

Sorry, if you are not putting your life on the line, you do not deserve to call yourself a "warrior" or any other term which implies duty and honor.

Re: Confessions of a Drone Warrior

#54

Post by olympus » Sat, Oct 26, 2013, 6:12 PM UTC

alcuadrado wrote: post #3

Which is the latency of Nevada-Afghanistan? I'd always thought that this drones were operated from a relative short distance.

Ballpark is around two seconds from making a control input (such as "begin orbiting around this point") and getting the feedback (like seeing the plane turning on your screen). You have to simultaneously stream full motion video from every drone flying over Afghanistan halfway across the planet via satellite-- not really an easy task. The latency sensitive parts such as taking off and landing are obviously done from nearby the physical location

Re: Confessions of a Drone Warrior

#55

Post by jread » Sat, Oct 26, 2013, 6:13 PM UTC

riggins wrote: post #46

jread wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Keep in mind that the JTAC is usually an enlisted soldier embedded with a ground unit. He is highly trained on ROE and positive ID, and generally has a good first hand perspective on what is happening on the ground. He is responsible for protecting the lives of the unit he is embedded with, and air assets are tasked to support him. From my experience, these are not warmongers, just guys doing their jobs, trying to pr…

I understand that. And this isn't about me trashing the operator. But I also have a logical mind and I can't avoid the implication that if his JTAC was a bad apple, he'd do what the JTAC said.

Aircrews have their own ROE and approval process for engagements. They aren't simply trigger pullers for the JTAC. However, there is an implicit trust in the JTAC, and desire to protect the ground unit. If ROE is satisfied and approvals are in place, the aircrew is generally not going to second guess the guys getting shot at.

Re: Confessions of a Drone Warrior

#56

Post by olympus » Sat, Oct 26, 2013, 6:15 PM UTC

enko wrote: post #17

I couldn't finish this article. It just makes me too angry. Warrior? How dare anyone involved in this dignify themselves with such an honour-laden term. They're just murderers, and the fact they hide behind so many layers of technology just makes it all the more cowardly and despicable.

Funny how if you'd actually read the article you would have realized that Brandon feels a lot of regret over what he's done and clearly didn't refer to himself as a warrior. It's just a title created to sell magazines.

Re: Confessions of a Drone Warrior

#57

Post by fit2rule » Sat, Oct 26, 2013, 6:18 PM UTC

jread wrote: post #40

riggins wrote: post #29

Considering Bryant is one of the only operators speaking out, his conscience seems to bother him more than the average. Here's a comparison (an IAMA thread from reddit). http://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/1ghkm7/iama_drone_sens... Q: Have you ever had to strike a target that you were not comfortable with? sensor_operator: No, I trust our JTACs 1000000% they really know their stuff. While this was the top voted com…

Keep in mind that the JTAC is usually an enlisted soldier embedded with a ground unit. He is highly trained on ROE and positive ID, and generally has a good first hand perspective on what is happening on the ground. He is responsible for protecting the lives of the unit he is embedded with, and air assets are tasked to support him. From my experience, these are not warmongers, just guys doing their jobs, trying to pr…

Worship war much? Fact is, these drones allow your government to commit heinous crimes against humanity with impunity.

If these JTAC's are so great, why the 50 to 1 civilian to 'bad guy' kill ratio?

Re: Confessions of a Drone Warrior

#58

Post by fit2rule » Sat, Oct 26, 2013, 6:19 PM UTC

coldcode wrote: post #5

Killing distant people in a foreign country is most people's definition of a terrorist attack. A declared war is one thing but this type of terror weapon is likely to backfire some day, if it hasn't already.

Drones are absolutely terrorist weapons. There is no question about it - they are DESIGNED to inflict as much terror as possible in the population.

Re: Confessions of a Drone Warrior

#59

Post by fit2rule » Sat, Oct 26, 2013, 6:21 PM UTC

DangerousPie wrote: post #16

coldcode wrote: post #5

Killing distant people in a foreign country is most people's definition of a terrorist attack. A declared war is one thing but this type of terror weapon is likely to backfire some day, if it hasn't already.

What? No it's not. Terrorism is about using violent, random attacks that cause fear to effect some sort of change. It has nothing to do with distance.

What part of a drone attack isn't violent, random, causing fear in those who observe them? They don't exactly drop rainbow-candy, books and water supplies on those foreigners, you know .. Every single drone attack is absolutely terrifying.

Re: Confessions of a Drone Warrior

#60

Post by fit2rule » Sat, Oct 26, 2013, 6:23 PM UTC

rayiner wrote: post #27

This is the future of warfare and it's a good thing. Way better than back when you would firebomb an industrial city or lob cruise missiles at poorly defined targets. No boots on the ground means none of our people at risk and drones are much more precise than bombs. The reactions in this thread demonstrate the classic uneasiness with killing a few people while being okay with killing lots of people. The people compl…

Yet another worshipper in the cult of death that has gripped America. Sorry, but your point of view is absolutely abhorrent to any educated, intelligent, modern persons' point of view.

It is not a good thing that people can drive to a strip mall in Americana, spend all day killing people in a video-game like reality, and get away with it with impunity. This is industrialized murder, and your justification is exactly the kind of point of view that must be thwarted in a just, honest, ethical society..