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Children aren't born smart. They're made smart by conversation

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Re: Children aren't born smart. They're made smart by conversation

#51

Post by Kudzu_Bob »

smtddr wrote: post #26
zizee wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's weird how people are happy to say genetics plays a hand in the limits of human abilities, but when it comes to talk about intelligence, there are so many people in denial. Perhaps it is just that you can't sell as many self help books if a lot of our brain's wiring is preordained.

What you call "denial", I call reasonable doubt. And by that, I mean we don't have any concrete way to measure intelligence potential/capacity in the same way we can measure 12 inches. We know what 12 inches mean, but can anyone tell me what it means to be smart? What subjects do I need to learn to qualify? And to what level of detail? Why do we conclude Stephen Hawkins is smart? Who is an example of someone that isn…

We do have concrete ways to measure intelligence, and have had them for over a hundred years. The literature on this subject is quite extensive.

Re: Children aren't born smart. They're made smart by conversation

#52

Post by Kudzu_Bob »

adventured wrote: post #18
pg wrote: post #5

I don't know whether this is true, but it feels true, and I've been operating as if it were.

I've always believed smart (developed capability) is taught, and genius (typically narrow high level mental capability) is born. And that all people at birth, except the relative few born with mental handicaps, are capable of being smart. A 100 to 115 IQ maxed out on potential and perspiration will get you very far in life.

A 100 to 115 IQ maxed out on potential will get you very far in life, but not as far as a 130 to 145 IQ maxed out on potential will.

Re: Children aren't born smart. They're made smart by conversation

#53

Post by dinkumthinkum »

sharkweek wrote: post #16

My boss's son is one of the smartest 18 month old kids I have ever met. He communication levels are through the roof, and for words he might not be able to say, or things he might not be able to express, he knows rudimentary sign language to communicate, e.g., he has a hand signal for "I'm tired" or "I'm hungry" -- he almost never has to cry to show he needs something. It's really quite impressive.

Do you have children? I know ostensibly that is irrelevant but what you're describing is good and impressive but it's probably not as uncommon as you think. Baby sign language is pretty popular in the parenting world. Actually, many babies can do that at much earlier ages. Not to detract anything, just saying ... :)

Re: Children aren't born smart. They're made smart by conversation

#54

Post by dinkumthinkum »

So many articles about who's smart, why are they smart, blah blah blah. I just wonder if it is just narcissism or its inadequacy or what ... but on some level, if you think you are smart, then just get on with and do "smart things" and if you think you're not "smart enough," get on it with anyway ... pining away about whether Khan Academy can make you the next Einstein or whether you need to be Einstein to understand it is pointless ... Sure we need some people to research education and so forth but I feel like we have that covered by now. :)

Re: Children aren't born smart. They're made smart by conversation

#55

Post by true_religion »

aptwebapps wrote: post #40
electrograv wrote: post #30

Saying "Children aren't born smart" is equivalent to saying "Intelligence is determined entirely by one's environment", if I understand the claim correctly. While I'm sure talking to ones children contributes in a massively positive way to their IQ, I think it's extremely inaccurate and ignorant to the existence of real-world outliers to claim that it's the only factor. To provide just one example (out of many, I'm s…

This is a useless nitpick. It's not a scientific treatise, it's a public service message to try to change people's behavior. I don't believe for a second that the doctor believes that intelligence has no inherited component whatsoever. She is dealing with a problem in the real world using what tools she has at her disposal. Edit: Responding jamesaguilar's and true_religion's point about the title. Yes, that's true. I…

Public service announcements should at the very least not contain false information in their titles.

Re: Children aren't born smart. They're made smart by conversation

#56

Post by eulerphi »

malandrew wrote: post #32
pg wrote: post #5

I don't know whether this is true, but it feels true, and I've been operating as if it were.

FWIW language gives children a tool with which they can discuss and more importantly reason about abstract concepts. The sooner you acquire a rich and varied vocabulary the sooner you can form a rich understanding about the phenomena in the world around you. Since kids learn fastest when they are young and that slows with age, a strong grasp of language means that they can absorb and understand more abstractions soon…

Edges between abstractions? You lost me with your abstraction.

Re: Children aren't born smart. They're made smart by conversation

#57

Post by ChuckMcM »

Solid parenting advice, #1 talk to your children even when they cannot talk, #2 read new books to your children every week. You can always re-read favorites but just keep the new books coming. And then combine #1 and #2 and talk to your children about the books you read.

There is an excellent Radiolab podcast on "Colors" [1] which has (for me) the fairly stunning revelation that you can't see a color you can't name. It starts by looking at the colors used in ancient texts and works its way forward. Some women have more cones than normal and are tetrachromatic so they can see more colors than the normal trichromatic human. But until you name the new colors apparently you can't see them (or recognize them).

People seem to need words to organize their thoughts and reason about things they see or read. The more words you give them, the better able they are to reason.

[1] http://www.radiolab.org/story/211119-colors/

Re: Children aren't born smart. They're made smart by conversation

#58

Post by eulerphi »

dinkumthinkum wrote: post #54

So many articles about who's smart, why are they smart, blah blah blah. I just wonder if it is just narcissism or its inadequacy or what ... but on some level, if you think you are smart, then just get on with and do "smart things" and if you think you're not "smart enough," get on it with anyway ... pining away about whether Khan Academy can make you the next Einstein or whether you need to be Einstein to understand…

Any discussion around smartness reminds me of the Big Bang Theory. If one needs to discuss their intellect, well they probably don't have much.

Re: Children aren't born smart. They're made smart by conversation

#60

Post by clarkm »

telephonetemp wrote: post #34
bkirkbri wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If you're raised by a pack of wolves in the woods, you'll probably be rock dumb by all measures, regardless of your DNA. Depends on how you define "dumb". I bet you'd be insanely good at hunting and eating enough prey to survive the winter.

Going a step further, you have to wonder if the genetic correlates of IQ (or g) affect survival and health in feral children.

I can't remember where I read it, but I know that hunting and tracking skills don't correlate very well with g. Though surprisingly, marksmanship does.
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