I'm turning Japanese.
Why I gave up my US passport
51–60 of 107 posts
Re: Why I gave up my US passport
#52I haven't renounced yet, but it's so very tempting. The arrogance of the US's dual-taxation bullshit is enough of a reason to consider it.
Be honest: it's not really about your perception of arrogance in a tax policy. It's really about the money. You think you are entitled to the privileges of US citizenship but somehow exempt from its legal obligations.
Re: Why I gave up my US passport
#53Some of the stuff the people in the article write is just plain stupid. If I could get US citizenship for my newly born daughter (born in Poland) after being in the US total just 5 years, why she couldn't get it done, is beyond me. People who have lived in EU complaining about US burocracy and pointing it as a reason for giving up on an US citizenship are beyond me too. US taxation system is a walk in a park compared…
Yes, the article wasn't exactly clear but pretty much all of the stories (well, I only read a few) refer obliquely to one thing: you are subject to taxation by the United States even while you're a resident abroad, and paying taxes abroad. It is as though your 'home state' continued to tax you (or make you file paperwork) long after you've moved to California. Nobody else (worldwide) does this. It doesn't make any se…
I’ve seen this said several times—the right way to say it is that the U.S. and Eritrea are the only countries that tax non-resident citizens’ income regardless of the source of that income. There are often tax treaties in place with Western countries that reduce that value to zero based on taxes paid to the country of residence.
Canada will tax non-resident citizens if they have certain ties to Canada (http://www.cra-arc.gc.ca/tx/nnrsdnts/cmmn/rsdncy-eng.html), but only on income generated in Canada.
Re: Why I gave up my US passport
#54I haven't renounced yet, but it's so very tempting. The arrogance of the US's dual-taxation bullshit is enough of a reason to consider it.
Be honest: it's not really about your perception of arrogance in a tax policy. It's really about the money. You think you are entitled to the privileges of US citizenship but somehow exempt from its legal obligations.
What benefit from paying income taxes, exactly? You're not living there, so you don't benefit from any of the social services that income tax funds.
Just about every other country I can think of does not tax citizens abroad who do not earn money on their native soil. What makes you think the US system is right and all the others are wrong?
Re: Why I gave up my US passport
#55Earlier quoted context omitted.
Yes, the article wasn't exactly clear but pretty much all of the stories (well, I only read a few) refer obliquely to one thing: you are subject to taxation by the United States even while you're a resident abroad, and paying taxes abroad. It is as though your 'home state' continued to tax you (or make you file paperwork) long after you've moved to California. Nobody else (worldwide) does this. It doesn't make any se…
> It is as though your 'home state' continued to tax you (or make you file paperwork) long after you've moved to California. This is an imperfect analogy (since there is not really a concept of "citizenship" for individual US states), but note that claiming residency in one state while living in another will often require you to pay taxes in both. > Nobody else (worldwide) does this. It doesn't make any sense. I thin…
> there is not really a concept of "citizenship" for individual US states
Yes there is. The Fourteenth Amendment clearly states:
All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside.
Re: Why I gave up my US passport
#56Is there any historical examples of a representative democratic country simplifying its tax code? How was it done?
The United States have been around for centuries, and each elected governments and congresses have their own idea about how the tax code should look like. Probably that's why now we have very complicated system, because it's the aggregation of centuries' worth of ideas.
The logical step is to simplify it, but I don't think it's really possible with the current US political system. Each part of the complexity benefits some group, and every group will influence the lawmakers to keep their benefit/loophole.
Re: Why I gave up my US passport
#57Earlier quoted context omitted.
Be honest: it's not really about your perception of arrogance in a tax policy. It's really about the money. You think you are entitled to the privileges of US citizenship but somehow exempt from its legal obligations.
What benefit from paying income taxes, exactly? You're not living there, so you don't benefit from any of the social services that income tax funds. Just about every other country I can think of does not tax citizens abroad who do not earn money on their native soil. What makes you think the US system is right and all the others are wrong?
and yet you do not want to give up your citizenship, so clearly you feel you are benefiting from some of the social benefits that your income tax funds.
Re: Why I gave up my US passport
#58What I'd be more interested in is if there is harassment for doing so. My daughter is an American citizen unfortunately (happenstance of birth), but won't be living in the US for any foreseeable reason. She'll be burdened with tax and reporting issues all her life if she doesn't renounce. But if she does renounce, will they hassle her when visiting family? What about if she does do some temporary work in the US, will…
At the moment the U.S. government is remarkably sane about this. People who renounce citizenship can re-enter the USA on tourist visas, get work visas (like an L-1), etc. They can even get green cards and re-acquire citizenship.
"Sane" will continue until we have a critical mass of people like Senator Schumer in the Senate.
Disclaimer: I am a lawyer. And I do lots and lots of expatriation cases.
Re: Why I gave up my US passport
#59Earlier quoted context omitted.
Of course they can be dismissed. What you're not getting is that these people have to pay full taxes in the place they're actually living. A place you're not living has no business collecting further taxes from you.
> What you're not getting is that these people have to pay full taxes in the place they're actually living. In that case, they can claim a "Foreign Earned Income Exclusion" [1] which reduces or eliminates their American tax liability for up to $97,600 of income that they are "paying full taxes" on. > A place you're not living has no business collecting further taxes from you. As other comments have noted, just becaus…
As has already been stated many, many times, for most Americans living abroad who are not super-rich, the issue isn't the taxation - it's the complexity (and associated penalties) of the reporting requirements.
Basically, the US government's attitude toward Americans living outside the US, much like the US attitude toward non-Americans wherever they live, is "F* You."
Perhaps you think that this attitude is somehow justified. As a US citizen myself, I think that it is detrimental to long-term US interests.
Re: Why I gave up my US passport
#60Earlier quoted context omitted.
What benefit from paying income taxes, exactly? You're not living there, so you don't benefit from any of the social services that income tax funds. Just about every other country I can think of does not tax citizens abroad who do not earn money on their native soil. What makes you think the US system is right and all the others are wrong?
and yet you do not want to give up your citizenship, so clearly you feel you are benefiting from some of the social benefits that your income tax funds.
Maybe the reason to not give up citizenship is simply "The option to go back to being a US resident-citizen and enjoy all other benefits". I can't see why this benefit needs any funding.