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Why I Moved My Startup to Oakland

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Re: Why I Moved My Startup to Oakland

#51

Post by graue »

aaroneous wrote: post #32
dgallagher wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From someone who lives in Massachusetts, how difficult is it to commute between Oakland and San Francisco? On a map they're about as close as Cambridge and Boston. Is there a huge difference between, say, driving a car and taking the BART?

< 15 minutes to downtown SF on BART, nearly the same drive if you're going off-peak.

However I hear that because BART shuts down early every night, you can't go to a nightclub, or even out to dinner, or work late(!) on the other bay, because once BART's closed, you're out of luck. No bike or pedestrian access on the bridges.

Is this true in practice? How big of a hassle is it if you don't have a car (and don't want to spring for an expensive taxi/Uber ride)?

(This reputation is a big reason why I don't want to ever move to the Bay Area. I currently live in Brooklyn, and can easily get home from Manhattan in 20 minutes... at 3am if I want to. In Cambridge/Boston the T shuts down, but not until around midnight and you can still bike or walk.)

(Edit: I was misinformed. I'd heard the BART shuts down at around 10pm, but it seems it's actually more like midnight, similar to the Boston area, and I didn't know there were all-night buses providing service between SF and Oakland when BART is closed.)

Re: Why I Moved My Startup to Oakland

#52

Post by radley »

tingletech wrote: post #39
aaroneous wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

< 15 minutes to downtown SF on BART, nearly the same drive if you're going off-peak.

It is actually faster to get to downtown SF from downtown OAK on BART than it is to get to downtown SF from the Sunset, Richmond, or even lower Haight on Muni.

During non-peak hours. In contrast, it will take an hour or longer to drive over on a weekend afternoons.

Re: Why I Moved My Startup to Oakland

#53

Post by wildgift »

timr wrote: post #24
drags wrote: post #11

It's easier to make this work when the company is smaller. One of the big advantages of SF (and especially the financial district) is that it's possible for most people in the city, the East Bay _and_ the South Bay to get to work in less than an hour. I want to make the commute decent for as many employees as possible.

"It's easier to make this work when the company is smaller." Oh jeez. The way people talk about it now, you'd think that San Francisco was some sort of eternal pre-requisite for founding a startup, rather than the flavor of the moment. Startups didn't want to be here until a few years ago, and it isn't exactly a practically motivated decision today. Startups get founded here mostly because a certain subset of 20-some…

I don't know what SF is like now, but CNet, Wired, Craigslist, and a few other companies started out there. There was also Hyperreal and SF.NET, the ravers, and Mondo 2000 up in Berkeley too. Maybe it wasn't the same kind of startup or the same people, but there it was.

Anyway, I was almost instantly burned out on that hype almost before it happened. It wasn't the tech but the whole utopianism that was tiresome. Technoids in fantasy land. Ugh.

I couldn't afford SF and liked Oakland a lot more, especially Chinatown and the area around the lake, and the swap meets, and the tiny computer stores. The Black culture, southern culture, Black Muslims, all that was new to me. The crime, not so cool, but whatever. SF had hella crime too.

I guess my old San Francisco and old Oakland are no more.

Re: Why I Moved My Startup to Oakland

#54

Post by fourstar »

graue wrote: post #51
aaroneous wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

< 15 minutes to downtown SF on BART, nearly the same drive if you're going off-peak.

However I hear that because BART shuts down early every night, you can't go to a nightclub, or even out to dinner, or work late(!) on the other bay, because once BART's closed, you're out of luck. No bike or pedestrian access on the bridges. Is this true in practice? How big of a hassle is it if you don't have a car (and don't want to spring for an expensive taxi/Uber ride)? (This reputation is a big reason why I don…

You could absolutely work late (not sure why you'd want to be at the office past 12, but whatever), The new eastern span of the bridge that went up put a pedestrian/bike lane on one side of the bridge, although it only goes to Treasure Island. The long term plan (apparently, which is a surprise to the taxpayers) is to put a connecting version of it on the western span, but it'll be about 500 million bucks and who knows how long. I've been to Brooklyn. It's what I liked most about visiting my sister in NYC, to be honest. It's the total beta city and Manhattan is the alpha. Oakland is the beta here, and obviously the alpha is SF.

You could take the all nighter AC transit bus (get a clipper card) http://transit.511.org/accessible/schedules/routeinfo.aspx?c... which runs from SF to the east bay.

Re: Why I Moved My Startup to Oakland

#55

Post by wildgift »

graue wrote: post #51
aaroneous wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

< 15 minutes to downtown SF on BART, nearly the same drive if you're going off-peak.

However I hear that because BART shuts down early every night, you can't go to a nightclub, or even out to dinner, or work late(!) on the other bay, because once BART's closed, you're out of luck. No bike or pedestrian access on the bridges. Is this true in practice? How big of a hassle is it if you don't have a car (and don't want to spring for an expensive taxi/Uber ride)? (This reputation is a big reason why I don…

There's a thing called a bus. Who the hell wants to bike across the Bay Bridge?

Re: Why I Moved My Startup to Oakland

#56

Post by wildgift »

benblodgett wrote: post #45

Let me start by saying I like the sentiment here. The hardest thing about living in NYC is knowing too many people. They distract you and give a false sense of comfort towards your situation. I get that. But, I have a problem with this, is moving an hour outside of a city really relocating? I'd argue if you don't want to be comfortable move to a city where you have no connections. Focus on somewhere not particularly…

LOL, yeah, move to Fresno or Kern County.

Re: Why I Moved My Startup to Oakland

#57

Post by wildgift »

yapcguy wrote: post #20
yeahrightoak wrote: post #2

Did you factor in the risk of dying when you made this decision? This kid is naive.

Why the downvotes for the poster? Most of San Francisco is safe, with just one or two neighborhoods being dodgy. Most of Oakland is unsafe, with just one or two neighborhoods being safe. Oakland is one of the most dangerous cities in the USA. Just because you live there and haven't been gunned down yet, doesn't mean it's not happening to many other people. It's literally your life, so do your own research and don't l…

That has to be BS. I used to walk around Oakland at night in the 90s during the crack days. Whatever. It was unsafe, but there's unsafe... and unsafe. Put on the city face. Besides, if you're not Black, the cops won't mess with you. People think anyone walking at night is crazy. And don't go to the really dangerous spots where gangs run the street, unless they know you. You can see it by the drug dealing. That's just common sense.

OK yeah I got mugged once. But nonviolently, LOL. Only cost me $20. This was near Downtown.

Re: Why I Moved My Startup to Oakland

#58

Post by steveklabnik »

wildgift wrote: post #55
graue wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

However I hear that because BART shuts down early every night, you can't go to a nightclub, or even out to dinner, or work late(!) on the other bay, because once BART's closed, you're out of luck. No bike or pedestrian access on the bridges. Is this true in practice? How big of a hassle is it if you don't have a car (and don't want to spring for an expensive taxi/Uber ride)? (This reputation is a big reason why I don…

There's a thing called a bus. Who the hell wants to bike across the Bay Bridge?

There are actually bike tour rental things expressly for biking across the bridge, its their advertising.

Re: Why I Moved My Startup to Oakland

#59

Post by wildgift »

steveklabnik wrote: post #50
yapcguy wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is about Oakland, why bring race into it? If the original poster had moved his startup to Stockton, we would be having the same conversation.

Race is always a factor for anyone who knows anything about the history of Oakland. For example, the Black Panther Party was founded in Oakland. There has been class war and racism at the heart of Oakland for many, many years. This post is another example of a long history of gentrification, which also has a racial component. Race is absolutely on-topic here. That doesn't mean I expect said discussion to be productiv…

The BPP starting at Laney is one of the cool things about Oakland. There's history around the corner when you're roaming the city. That and the Oakland Museum and Chinatown. And Flints BBQ, and E&J, and Doug's. And the markets in Fruitvale. And the anarchist and communist stuff in Berkeley. I'm getting all misty-eyed.

Re: Why I Moved My Startup to Oakland

#60

Post by graue »

fourstar wrote: post #54
graue wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

However I hear that because BART shuts down early every night, you can't go to a nightclub, or even out to dinner, or work late(!) on the other bay, because once BART's closed, you're out of luck. No bike or pedestrian access on the bridges. Is this true in practice? How big of a hassle is it if you don't have a car (and don't want to spring for an expensive taxi/Uber ride)? (This reputation is a big reason why I don…

You could absolutely work late (not sure why you'd want to be at the office past 12, but whatever), The new eastern span of the bridge that went up put a pedestrian/bike lane on one side of the bridge, although it only goes to Treasure Island. The long term plan (apparently, which is a surprise to the taxpayers) is to put a connecting version of it on the western span, but it'll be about 500 million bucks and who kno…

Nice. It looks like I was misinformed, and I now have much less reason to avoid the Bay Area. Thanks for clarifying.

Though biking a 5 mile long bridge with no bike lane on half of it sounds terrifying, so I'd probably consider it still not bikeable for now.

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