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The Man Who Gets The Science Right On 'The Big Bang Theory'

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Re: The Man Who Gets The Science Right On 'The Big Bang Theory'

#51

Post by stormbrew »

eco wrote: post #11
stormbrew wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I really wish people would stop saying this. Even if you don't mean to trivialize what blackface actually was, that is basically the net effect. It's a terrible analogy on pretty much every level.

They both set up caricatures of an unpopular group for the audience to laugh at. Like I said, blackface is far worse but I don't see how the analogy is "[terrible] on pretty much every level". It's much less hateful and damaging, certainly, but it's there in tone. I was hoping to not have this debate that invariably comes up about how you can't compare anything to blackface because of how bad blackface was but I don'…

I feel like the second paragraph wasn't there when I first replied to this, but if it was I just didn't notice it. I'd like to address it specifically either way.

I'm not at all saying "you can't compare anything to blackface." There are absolutely modern power structures that resemble it, and it is absolutely right to point them out and deal with them. I would never ever say that you shouldn't.

What I'm saying is that this is not a matter of scope but structure. Structurally, whatever you're seeing in Big Bang Theory does not resemble in any way what exists in traditional minstrelry. The people who are the butt of the joke in Big Bang Theory do not suffer systemic disadvantages in the way that Black people in the Jim Crowe era did, and they actually enjoy quite a lot of systemic advantages.

If merely caricaturing people for an audience to laugh at is sufficient justification for a comparison to minstrelry, then the entire comedy industry is and has always been guilty of it. As for unpopular, I'd also argue that there's a vast difference between unpopular and being treated as subhuman by law, to the point that they are not even close to the same thing. Black people being 'unpopular' is not why minstrelry was wrong.

Re: The Man Who Gets The Science Right On 'The Big Bang Theory'

#52

Post by rhizome »

freyr wrote: post #46
coldtea wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Do people really think, even for a second, that CBS developed a primetime network show whose jokes were targeted specifically to Caltech physics PhD students? Or even to self-identified nerds? Yes, and it named it The Big Band Theory. I mean seriously, did you really think, ever for a second, that this wasn't at attempt to hit the target group of (not Caltech PhD students of course) the "geek/nerd crowd" -- a group…

Right. You're the center of the universe. And "Gilligan's Island" was made for people stranded on desert islands. "Taxi" targeted that coveted taxi driver demographic. "That 70s Show" targeted time-travelling teenagers from the 1970s. "Scrubs" was written for doctors. Remember how upset all the doctors were when Scrubs joked about doctor stereotypes? No? Likewise "Frasier" was for effete psychiatrists, "Cheers" for b…

The way Chuck Lorre writes, the scripts could be transposed onto just about any combination of stereotypes you can imagine. Stereotypes are his game, and BBT could just as easily be shot with the Happy Days characters with the Fonz in the Penny role.

Re: The Man Who Gets The Science Right On 'The Big Bang Theory'

#53

Post by [deleted] »

cdcarter wrote: post #48
nikatwork wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Multi-camera sitcoms with live audiences are very, very different in writing, tone, and end product to single camera comedies. They both serve different purposes. Or, y'know, you could have single camera comedies with no laugh track. The British seem to manage that just fine. I personally find laugh tracks equal parts desperate and condescending. "Hey dummy! There's a joke here! Laugh damn you... LAUGH!!"

Did you miss the last paragraph of his post. He was comparing live in-studio w/ audience to single camera, saying how a laugh track in live in-studio helps, and then goes on to note how he doesn't approve of canned laughter.

[deleted]

Re: The Man Who Gets The Science Right On 'The Big Bang Theory'

#54

Post by [deleted] »

freyr wrote: post #33
Camillo wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the appeal of BBT is that some people like to see a reflection of their microcosm: they like to see people like them, situations like the ones they experience, references to things they like, etc.. It makes them feel relevant and part of an in-group. It's the same appeal that xkcd has. It has been called "referential humor", but I don't think it should be classified as humor, although for some people it seems…

>> It has been called "referential humor", but I don't think it should be classified as humor, although for some people it seems to be a completely satisfying humor surrogate. You're just completely missing the point. The joke is not the nerdy references. The references are a backdrop, a framework in which to develop the show's humor. Do people really think, even for a second, that CBS developed a primetime network s…

[deleted]

Re: The Man Who Gets The Science Right On 'The Big Bang Theory'

#55

Post by lelandbatey »

dnautics wrote: post #35
novum wrote: post #3

As an aside, I was watching BBT just yesterday (on a long plane ride with limited entertainment options) and I was reminded how uncomfortably awkward it makes me feel. In short, the core problem is that the characters are not sympathetic -- you're meant to laugh at them, not with them, to say nothing of the show's terribly backwards gender roles. This essay was quite popular a while back and summarizes all this and m…

I think a second core problem with BBT is that it really plays into the "trappings of being intelligent" - which is not how most intelligent people actually are. There are a TON of "signalling" devices, for example liking comic books, or having thick-rimmed glasses. Now, I'm not a physicist (chemist/biologist) and we may be more "down to earth" but I don't have a single scientist friend who HAS THE TIME to do a lot o…

Indeed, I've heard the style of the humor on Big Bang Theory as

    "Stupid comedy about smart things."
And I'd agree with that. The humor itself is really shallow, often mean spirited and uncomfortable. They can only pass themselves off as "smart" because they have peripheral details that relate to traditionally smart things.

Re: The Man Who Gets The Science Right On 'The Big Bang Theory'

#56

Post by DigitalSea »

The Big Bang Theory is a horrible piece of television. It's so horribly cliched that I feel somewhat insulted that it perpetuates the overused stereotypes that nerds are socially awkward people who are afraid of girls, love Star Trek, wear thick-rimmed glasses, idolise Stephen Hawking and have bad people skills.

Good on them for having science consultants to get the science part of the show right, but the show is uncomfortable to watch. BBT is a dumb show about smart people. A show that repeats beaten to death stereotypes about nerds and jocks, a show that does nothing to break the status quo that smart people are the only hope this world has and that all smart people aren't comic book loving introverts who never go out and are 40 year old virgins.

Obviously I am not the target of this show nor are any of my educated friends with degrees. But I can tell you the stereotype of what smart people actually are is completely wrong because smart people can't be pigeon holed into a certain category. Everyone is different; you have your introverts and extroverts, your comic book readers and non-comic-book readers.

As usual I am overreacting. I have a passionate disdain for this show and know of many others who feel exactly the same way. I didn't intend for this to sound like a rant, it's somewhat out of place, but felt it had to be said.

Re: The Man Who Gets The Science Right On 'The Big Bang Theory'

#57

Post by dkuntz2 »

shib71 wrote: post #6
novum wrote: post #3

As an aside, I was watching BBT just yesterday (on a long plane ride with limited entertainment options) and I was reminded how uncomfortably awkward it makes me feel. In short, the core problem is that the characters are not sympathetic -- you're meant to laugh at them, not with them, to say nothing of the show's terribly backwards gender roles. This essay was quite popular a while back and summarizes all this and m…

I personally find the characters very sympathetic and laughing at the BBT characters is like laughing at myself. It's refreshing to see the extreme qualities which other shows merely caricature be shown in the context of fully fleshed out human beings.

BBT doesn't flesh out those characters. Most other shows I watch do.

Ben Wyatt on Parks and Rec comes off as a much more realistic nerd than any of the characters on BBT.

Abed Nadir in Community is also a whole lot more fleshed out than the characters in BBT.

The BBT characters are the epitome of stereotypical, caricatures of nerds. None of them are ever shown to have interests other than the traditionally nerdy kind.

If by "fully fleshed out human beings", you mean they happen to be main characters, sure. But by any other definition of "fully fleshed out" vs "caricature", they're much closer to caricature.

Re: The Man Who Gets The Science Right On 'The Big Bang Theory'

#58

Post by dkuntz2 »

WalterBright wrote: post #50

My favorite nerdy character is Walter "I'm in the http://www.classicempire.com business" White.

I watched most of Breaking Bad for the first time this summer (all but the final eight episodes), and while I really like Walt at the beginning, these last few episodes (really starting with Say My Name, the second to last episode in the first half of season five) my like started to wane. I still like the character, but not as much...

I think Abed Nadir from Community is more my type of nerd. Probably because I find the character similar to myself.

Re: The Man Who Gets The Science Right On 'The Big Bang Theory'

#60

Post by vacri »

dnautics wrote: post #35
novum wrote: post #3

As an aside, I was watching BBT just yesterday (on a long plane ride with limited entertainment options) and I was reminded how uncomfortably awkward it makes me feel. In short, the core problem is that the characters are not sympathetic -- you're meant to laugh at them, not with them, to say nothing of the show's terribly backwards gender roles. This essay was quite popular a while back and summarizes all this and m…

I think a second core problem with BBT is that it really plays into the "trappings of being intelligent" - which is not how most intelligent people actually are. There are a TON of "signalling" devices, for example liking comic books, or having thick-rimmed glasses. Now, I'm not a physicist (chemist/biologist) and we may be more "down to earth" but I don't have a single scientist friend who HAS THE TIME to do a lot o…

BBT bugs me for the same reasons. I've yet to find someone actually in the life that enjoys the show. It seems to be an outsider's view of 'what nerds and geeks do', rather than written by nerds and geeks. This is given away in the article when they say they had to be shown students' apartments to see what they looked like.

It's interesting that the people I know who like it are the ones who like to be close to STEM or academia, but not actually in it. A sort of living-the-fantasy. Admiring the trappings you talk about, all wrapped around a fairly bog-standard sitcom.

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