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Why I'm Getting a PhD

johnbender.us

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Re: Why I'm Getting a PhD

#51

Post by hobo_mark »

johnbender wrote: post #27
burntsushi wrote: post #18

Is anyone else doing their PhD (or did their PhD) just because they thought it was a lot of fun and a great way to learn a lot in a short time period? Not that it's the only way to do any of those things, but I've found the lifestyle of a graduate student in CS to be extremely appealing. My mentor once suggested that a PhD is only worthwhile if you plan on doing research after you graduate. But as he got to know me b…

I didn't cover this at all, but I am very excited about the education and the process. For most people though some stronger reasoning is necessary and my understanding is that the research is really the point of PhD, the education is there to support that.

Congratulations, I have also been thinking about going back for a PhD sometime when "I'm older and more financially secure", even though I could never do it with a family to support at the same time, both things are already incredibly hard work on their own.

Re: Why I'm Getting a PhD

#53

Post by jofer »

For whatever it's worth, as someone who just finished, you're doing a PhD for all of the right reasons.

You do it because you want to. Because you like getting to delve into a wide array of things. Because you want to focus more on interesting problems than interesting solutions. (Obviously, those two aren't mutually exclusive.)

If you're doing it with a career focus, it's not worth it. A PhD can be a hindrance in the corporate world, and jobs in academia are difficult to get.

Do it because you want a chance to do what you find most interesting for 5-8 years. (CS is probably shorter... In the geosciences, a M.S. is 2-3 years, and a PhD is an additional 4-6. Typically, you switch institutions between an MS and PhD, as well.)

Also, from what I've seen, people who come back to graduate work after working for awhile are generally more successful than folks straight out of undergrad.

On the other hand, a PhD can close more doors than it opens in the corporate world, at least in my limited experience. For reasons I don't understand, most people view a PhD as meaning specialization. You'll be seen as "too specialized", regardless of your actual experience and skillset. At least for me, the opposite is true. My graduate work required me to be a generalist. Everyone I know of came out of undergrad much more specialized and became more of a generalist over time.

Re: Why I'm Getting a PhD

#54

Post by fixxer »

burntsushi wrote: post #18

Is anyone else doing their PhD (or did their PhD) just because they thought it was a lot of fun and a great way to learn a lot in a short time period? Not that it's the only way to do any of those things, but I've found the lifestyle of a graduate student in CS to be extremely appealing. My mentor once suggested that a PhD is only worthwhile if you plan on doing research after you graduate. But as he got to know me b…

I started my PhD as a fun learning experience. I didn't (and still don't) care about credentials.

As I've gotten further into the degree, I've realized that academic research is as plagued by corporate-style politics as any other venture. The fun started to die.

As it is, I'm looking for the door (dissertation to be completed while working).

Re: Why I'm Getting a PhD

#55

Post by mattgreenrocks »

bfe wrote: post #15

For something like an opposite perspective, there's "Why I'm leaving [my job as a CS professor at] Harvard [to join Google]": http://matt-welsh.blogspot.com/2010/11/why-im-leaving-harvar... Shorter version of both posts: "Working at (university/big tech co.) frees me from all the distractions of working at (big tech co./university) so I can spend all my time hacking on the problems I find most interesting."

Where I get stuck: "we only accept PhDs at [GOOG/MS/FB] research." I want to be in these communities (preferably somewhere with funding + needs, likely to be a BigCo), but they don't make themselves very open.

Re: Why I'm Getting a PhD

#56

Post by cossatot »

PeterisP wrote: post #39
001sky wrote: post #19

Career Path ... Unfortunately, the problems I gravitate towards are not normally assigned to engineers and attempts to marry my interests with my domain of expertise [1,2] have met with understandably tepid responses. ,,, All of that makes perfect sense but it means I can't focus on the problems that I'm interested in. --- What Interests Me The things that keep me up past midnight working and learning are technical.…

A big point in academia is that you can research whatever direction and niche you want, but you'll get paid only to research directions and niches chosen by others.. If those directions happen to overlap at the right time and place, you can have a great time getting a PhD; if they stop overlapping (possibly suddenly), then the choices aren't that nice.

Successful research strategies typically involve working on what is funded, and simultaneously bootstrapping what isn't until the early results are sufficient to get funding or at least collaborators on board. It's maybe tougher overall, but it's the only way to have interesting work longer term. It's also nice when you're mind is blown-out and you're stuck and sick of your current project to do something shiny and new for a little while.

I would assume that this is exactly how most businesses operate; you have to not only serve your current customers but line up new ones as well.

Re: Why I'm Getting a PhD

#57

Post by burntsushi »

iskander wrote: post #21
burntsushi wrote: post #18

Is anyone else doing their PhD (or did their PhD) just because they thought it was a lot of fun and a great way to learn a lot in a short time period? Not that it's the only way to do any of those things, but I've found the lifestyle of a graduate student in CS to be extremely appealing. My mentor once suggested that a PhD is only worthwhile if you plan on doing research after you graduate. But as he got to know me b…

I've been enjoying it: work with smart folks, occasionally speak at conferences, learn whatever you're curious about.. However, the money situation can become tricky (especially in New York). I double my income from summer internships but have still managed to accumulate a lot of credit card debt. I would recommend the lifestyle only if, in addition to having a good advisor/lab and liking open-ended exploration, you…

With regard to (2), I think it's more like, "Don't go to school in one of the most expensive places to live on Earth." :P

(I go to school in Boston, and while I live closer to central Massachusetts, plenty of my cohorts who live around Boston don't seem to have any financial issues without doing an internship.)

Re: Why I'm Getting a PhD

#58

Post by burntsushi »

fixxer wrote: post #54
burntsushi wrote: post #18

Is anyone else doing their PhD (or did their PhD) just because they thought it was a lot of fun and a great way to learn a lot in a short time period? Not that it's the only way to do any of those things, but I've found the lifestyle of a graduate student in CS to be extremely appealing. My mentor once suggested that a PhD is only worthwhile if you plan on doing research after you graduate. But as he got to know me b…

I started my PhD as a fun learning experience. I didn't (and still don't) care about credentials. As I've gotten further into the degree, I've realized that academic research is as plagued by corporate-style politics as any other venture. The fun started to die. As it is, I'm looking for the door (dissertation to be completed while working).

> As I've gotten further into the degree, I've realized that academic research is as plagued by corporate-style politics as any other venture. The fun started to die.

I've actually gone through precisely the same realization, but it hasn't ruined the fun for me. Namely, I seem to be an observer while the messy politics are played by the faculty members.

I entered graduate school with the intention to become a professor, but am now leaning more toward taking my chances in industry. But I'm happy with my destination being unknown for the moment. :-)

Re: Why I'm Getting a PhD

#59

Post by KrisJordan »

geebee wrote: post #34

I truly wish you the best of luck, and for an excellent outcome. One thing - you just can't say "why I'm getting a PhD", even from an elite school, the way you'd say "why I'm getting a law, medical, or business degree". Even if you've been admitted to an elite program, you can really only say "why I'm rolling the dice on the possibility of getting a PhD". At elite programs, there is essentially no involuntary attriti…

I suppose I am part of your Ph.D. 'attrition' statistic. It's less atrocious than you'd think.

I enrolled in Brown's Ph.D. CS computer program immediately after undergrad. In retrospect, I was too green to do proper due diligence to find the right fit with advisor and research area. The advisor relationship is extremely important. Within the first year I realized two things: 1) there was no way I'd be happy going deep with this particular research area and advisor for another 5-6 years, 2) I would complete my masters in the first year, fully paid for (with a research assistant "salary" on top) by being on the PhD track. I returned full-time to the company I co-founded while in undergrad after that first year.

No two PhD paths are the same, unlike with JD/MBA. Some folks come in and earn a master's along the way. Some come in with a master's. Some don't pass the (widely different depending on school) bars to advance to the Ph.D. candidate stage (I imagine there's a good bit of attrition here). Some don't find an advisor who can fund them. The requirement of contributing something novel to the body of research, no matter how long it takes, is a higher bar than completing coursework and projects. 6,7,8 years is a lot longer than 2-3.

Re: Why I'm Getting a PhD

#60

Post by burntsushi »

enraged_camel wrote: post #42
burntsushi wrote: post #18

Is anyone else doing their PhD (or did their PhD) just because they thought it was a lot of fun and a great way to learn a lot in a short time period? Not that it's the only way to do any of those things, but I've found the lifestyle of a graduate student in CS to be extremely appealing. My mentor once suggested that a PhD is only worthwhile if you plan on doing research after you graduate. But as he got to know me b…

I don't have a PhD, but I hear it depends a lot on the school, the field of study, and most importantly, the mentor they assign you. Your mentor specifically has the ability to make your life hell and completely obstruct your learning.

A few points:

1. My mentor is not the same person as my advisor. (I use the word "mentor" to describe a professor who is both my friend and someone whose advice I value deeply.)

2. My advisor is not the same person as the advisor I was assigned to when I entered graduate school.

But I agree with your main point: your advisor (and the way you receive your advisor) can play a big role in the level of misery of your graduate student years.

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