Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Apple’s Fingerprint ID May Mean You Can’t ‘Take the Fifth’

wired.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

51–60 of 141 posts

Re: Apple’s Fingerprint ID May Mean You Can’t ‘Take the Fifth’

#51

Post by alexfringes »

Someone wrote: post #38
sschueller wrote: post #13

A finger can easily be forcefully used or even removed for use later. A password however is still harder to get out of a brain and can be just as strong if it is long/complex enogh.

I don't think getting a password out of a living brain is harder than removing a finger. Most brains would give you their password if you threaten to remove a finger, even more if you give a demo first and threaten to remove a second one. In the case where the brain is dead, removing the finger is way easier. I am not sure how that balances out, but I am sure two-factor authentication (fingerprint plus password) beat…

"24" News.

Re: Apple’s Fingerprint ID May Mean You Can’t ‘Take the Fifth’

#53

Post by rblatz »

danso wrote: post #36

A little off-topic, but can someone tell me why fingerprint-access is even a needed feature? With PIN access, you get good enough security when you also enable the lock-after-10-mistypes. And 4-digits is only about a few seconds slower than fingerprint access...and since you already have instant access to incoming calls and to the camera, in what situations do we need insta-touch access to our phones? Phones are gett…

It improves the security of my phone in the real world cases that I'm likely to encounter. Like friends, coworkers, family members, and significant others. It's trivial for them to observe my pin, but lifting a print and creating a fake finger ala Mythbusters or compelling me by force is beyond their resources.

So it's a trade off, giving up security against a determined threat for a gain in security against casual threats.

Re: Apple’s Fingerprint ID May Mean You Can’t ‘Take the Fifth’

#54

Post by gknoy »

tedunangst wrote: post #46
jlgreco wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You would be missing the key "the phone is, beyond doubt, yours" step.

"I just bought it yesterday."

Since it's trivial to show whether or not that is true, I would not advise making such a thing. It is highly inadvisable to lie to the police or courts.

Re: Apple’s Fingerprint ID May Mean You Can’t ‘Take the Fifth’

#55

Post by eyesee »

ejdyksen wrote: post #35
Osmium wrote: post #4

In practice, it might have the opposite effect. Currently, 4-digit PINs are (presumably) brute-forceable and the alternative of entering a longer, cryptographically-secure password every time you want to use your phone is impractical, so it doesn't really matter whether you can be legally compelled to divulge your PIN or not. However, with a fingerprint ID, you can now use a cryptographically strong password to encry…

> 4-digit PINs are (presumably) brute-forceable True, but iOS does have an option to wipe the phone after 10 unsuccessful PIN attempts. Given that iCloud backup is pretty simple to setup, there's no reason not to configure this option, IMO.

iCloud backups are encrypted so long as you have protection enabled on your phone. Apple has a white paper describing the process:

http://images.apple.com/iphone/business/docs/iOS_Security_Oc...

Re: Apple’s Fingerprint ID May Mean You Can’t ‘Take the Fifth’

#56

Post by coldtea »

>Take this hypothetical example coined by the Supreme Court: If the police demand that you give them the key to a lockbox that happens to contain incriminating evidence, turning over the key wouldn’t be testimonial if it’s just a physical act that doesn’t reveal anything you know. However, if the police try to force you to divulge the combination to a wall safe, your response would reveal the contents of your mind — and so would implicate the Fifth Amendment. (If you’ve written down the combination on a piece of paper and the police demand that you give it to them, that may be a different story.)

BS interpretations like these make the legal system a big bad joke.

The original intention clearly had nothing to do with whether it was something out of your mind or not, and all to do with not being forced to implicate yourself.

Re: Apple’s Fingerprint ID May Mean You Can’t ‘Take the Fifth’

#57

Post by coldtea »

crazygringo wrote: post #37

The way everyone's talking, you'd think Apple was taking away the four-digit PIN! But they're not... The fingerprint ID is just another option , which you don't have to use . So titles like this are just incorrect. Fingerprint ID isn't taking away any of your rights, because you can still use the PIN just like you always have . I mean seriously, what the heck is going on here? Why on earth are people getting worked u…

>The way everyone's talking, you'd think Apple was taking away the four-digit PIN! But they're not... The fingerprint ID is just another option, which you don't have to use.

That's never how it works. Today it's "just another option", a few years down the line it's mandatory.

And "not having to use" does not equal "people will not use it unless they are fully aware of possible consequences" anyway.

Re: Apple’s Fingerprint ID May Mean You Can’t ‘Take the Fifth’

#60

Post by beloch »

It will be interesting to see how difficult or how easy it is to fool Apple's fingerprint scanner. I suspect the security will not be high given the constraints of putting it in a button on a mobile phone and the preference for letting marginal scans authenticate the user so as not to frustrate or inconvenience them.

Personally, I'd trust a 4-digit pin with a lockout timer to stand up better than fingerprint authentication. It looks cool in the movies, but it's never been a very bright idea.

Of course, most won't care if it's insecure, and being able to set different functions to automatically execute based on scanning different fingers (an ability laptop scanners have had for years) is certainly a selling point.

Post reply on HN