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AutoDesk Releases An Electronics Simulator Called 123D Circuits

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Re: AutoDesk Releases An Electronics Simulator Called 123D Circuits

#51

Post by contingencies »

enobrev wrote: post #47

Reminds me of an old idea I had a couple years back. I assume it's a silly idea driven primarily by my own ignorance of these tools and EE in general, but it seemed fun. The idea was to start out with some software similar to this. Something visually impressive to keep it interesting for beginners, but technically sound to make it useful to those who know what they're doing. It would be open source, internet connecte…

I like it. Sort of like Mechwarrior meets Minecraft meets My University Education in Mollecular/Astrophysics. I suspect the major issues would be with time scaling between user perspectives (a huge issue in MMO games), the learning curve, interface and simulation accuracy.

Re: AutoDesk Releases An Electronics Simulator Called 123D Circuits

#52

Post by Brashman »

enobrev wrote: post #47

Reminds me of an old idea I had a couple years back. I assume it's a silly idea driven primarily by my own ignorance of these tools and EE in general, but it seemed fun. The idea was to start out with some software similar to this. Something visually impressive to keep it interesting for beginners, but technically sound to make it useful to those who know what they're doing. It would be open source, internet connecte…

The kid in me loves it but simulation speed would be an issue. I don't know exactly what the simulation slowdown for circuits is, but just to give an idea, in a classroom setting, you're probably waiting a couple seconds for a simulation of a couple microseconds. Of course, this depends on factors such as simulation accuracy and circuit complexity, but it's unlikely you'd be able to scale up to robots. Intel processors take hours (days?) to simulate a couple seconds of operation at the circuit level.

Re: AutoDesk Releases An Electronics Simulator Called 123D Circuits

#53

Post by Brashman »

mbell wrote: post #3

I wonder if it models the terrible parasitics of a real breadboard. I imagine it would be really annoying for beginners to build an IR receiver (or whatever) with the software, have it working perfectly, then try to build it on a real breadboard only to spend hours frustratingly trying to figure out why the circuit is oscillating.

Welcome to EE lab. In one lab as an undergrad, my partner and I found that we could get our circuit to work by attaching a capacitor with one end to our circuit and one end to a random place on the breadboard. It made for a bit of a funny circuit diagram in the write-up where one end of this capacitor was connected to nowhere.

Re: AutoDesk Releases An Electronics Simulator Called 123D Circuits

#54

Post by gammarator »

moron4hire wrote: post #28

I think there is a lot of value to blowing up your Arduino for reals. When you blow up a couple of Arduinos, you'll tend to force yourself to learn very quickly why it is happening and how to avoid it. What is so bad about "blowing up a capacitor" or "burning yourself with a soldering iron"? Capacitors are a few cents, each. Buy them in bulk and never worry about needing one again. Soldering iron burns are easy to av…

Agreed, although the integration with a schematics editor and PCB board design tools seems nice.

Re: AutoDesk Releases An Electronics Simulator Called 123D Circuits

#55

Post by tlrobinson »

fnordfnordfnord wrote: post #37
moron4hire wrote: post #28

I think there is a lot of value to blowing up your Arduino for reals. When you blow up a couple of Arduinos, you'll tend to force yourself to learn very quickly why it is happening and how to avoid it. What is so bad about "blowing up a capacitor" or "burning yourself with a soldering iron"? Capacitors are a few cents, each. Buy them in bulk and never worry about needing one again. Soldering iron burns are easy to av…

There are so many people that underestimated the potential success for Arduino, and the rPi. Also, experienced hardware folks tend to forget how unforgiving hardware can be to non-hardware folks, and beginners; a good example of which was posted here the other day. http://www.jwz.org/curtain/

Nice, I've been wanting to motorize my curtains for awhile. Glad jwz did the hard work for me.

Re: AutoDesk Releases An Electronics Simulator Called 123D Circuits

#56

Post by harrytuttle »

Brashman wrote: post #53
mbell wrote: post #3

I wonder if it models the terrible parasitics of a real breadboard. I imagine it would be really annoying for beginners to build an IR receiver (or whatever) with the software, have it working perfectly, then try to build it on a real breadboard only to spend hours frustratingly trying to figure out why the circuit is oscillating.

Welcome to EE lab. In one lab as an undergrad, my partner and I found that we could get our circuit to work by attaching a capacitor with one end to our circuit and one end to a random place on the breadboard. It made for a bit of a funny circuit diagram in the write-up where one end of this capacitor was connected to nowhere.

Ex EE here (RF/mixed signal). I always modelled it as everything being connected to everything via a tiny capacitor and a big resistor in parallel. This allowed a few odd scenarios to be reliably identified, especially in UHF frequencies and above.

The trailing capacitor just had a large value invisible resistor attaching it to your circuit somewhere :)

Re: AutoDesk Releases An Electronics Simulator Called 123D Circuits

#57

Post by harrytuttle »

pserwylo wrote: post #48
moron4hire wrote: post #28

I think there is a lot of value to blowing up your Arduino for reals. When you blow up a couple of Arduinos, you'll tend to force yourself to learn very quickly why it is happening and how to avoid it. What is so bad about "blowing up a capacitor" or "burning yourself with a soldering iron"? Capacitors are a few cents, each. Buy them in bulk and never worry about needing one again. Soldering iron burns are easy to av…

As somebody who is learning electronics using Arduino right now, I almost agree with you. WARNING: The first time I accidentally forgot to put a resistor in front of an LED and sent 50mA to one which was rated at 20mA, I expected it to fizzle and cut out like a regular incandescent light bulb does in my house. When it literally exploded and the plastic covering went flying through the room, I was very very glad it di…

Yes this is always 'interesting'. I'd personally suggest that everyone at least stuffs the following components over a 30v DC 5 amp supply (in a fume cupboard with goggles on) at least once just so you know when to wince: electrolytic capacitor reverse polarised, 1 ohm resistor, generic npn transistor (base-emitter forward biased), various LEDs, signal diodes.

you learn to double check your circuits first then :)

Re: AutoDesk Releases An Electronics Simulator Called 123D Circuits

#59

Post by ris »

voltagex_ wrote: post #42
ris wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, I agree if you s/validation/co-opting/ No, it doesn't necessarily mean they won't move on to something else later, but they're now living in a universe where it will always be Autodesk's job to make that harder or less obvious to them. By any means available.

I'm not sure keeping hobbyists locked to a particular platform is that useful to Autodesk, especially considering the prices they charge for higher level software. If it wasn't Autodesk doing this, would you have the same reaction? What about Makerbot's move away from open-source?

I would have exactly the same reaction - I don't have any issues specific to Autodesk, apart from those that I've expressed here related to their 123D suite.

Re: AutoDesk Releases An Electronics Simulator Called 123D Circuits

#60

Post by VLM »

enobrev wrote: post #47

Reminds me of an old idea I had a couple years back. I assume it's a silly idea driven primarily by my own ignorance of these tools and EE in general, but it seemed fun. The idea was to start out with some software similar to this. Something visually impressive to keep it interesting for beginners, but technically sound to make it useful to those who know what they're doing. It would be open source, internet connecte…

One issue is complexity management. The kind of finite element software that can model fields in microwave-range hardware is, frankly, a PITA at one extreme, and at the other extreme you have minecraft redstone and an ancient computer game from the 80s called Rockys Boots and some .edu softare.

It strikes me as pretty hard to satisfy both extremes. Don't even have to go to extremes. Forget exotic microwave work an just try to have the same software and user interface model both a stereotypical ham radio dude 20M dipole and simultaneously be usable for a kids arduino LED blinker and make a simple flashlight.

I would claim that minecraft redstone is a local maxima and you'd do best to try and extend/mod it. Someone out there probably already has (or should have) a mod to add basic logic gates in redstone, rather than simple plungers which already exist, how about simple robot arm joints in minecraft?

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