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ODesk vs Elance vs Freelancer vs Guru

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Re: ODesk vs Elance vs Freelancer vs Guru

#51

Longtime oDesker here, I've made mid 5 figures total. I recently received a notification from oDesk that I'm part of the top 5% of "successful freelancers" on oDesk which I interpreted to mean top 5% of earners. It honestly astounded me because my account has been basically inactive for the last 8 months and I've only worked on oDesk projects since a few months after I quit my job, roughly late 2011. I started workin…

If i were a generalist programmer, eager to learn a technology for good pay on Odesk, what would you say are the technologies more well paid and that at the same time adjust better to the remote freelance model on that site?

In general, my advice would be to not approach freelancing as an exchange of expertise in a certain technology for currency. Usually people are looking for their problems to be solved - build me an app, fix my slow site, make me more money - so my advice would be to market yourself as a problem-fixer instead.

That said, web development is obviously hot at the moment (Django, Rails, Node, etc) and I have marketed myself as an expert Ruby on Rails developer successfully. Now, I don't do this for in-person gigs but on oDesk I think that it helps with my credibility for those tech-savvy employers with lists of skills they need. There are certainly a plethora of jobs posted for various stacks. I believe oDesk lists their projects in public and if not, you can create a free account and peruse the listings for a better idea.

I still would advise you to address other risks in your pitch to employers though, because generally speaking you'll be talking to people who are nervous about hiring and spending money on someone they've never met (and may never meet in person). A business owner or entrepreneur posting on oDesk is disproportionately worried about things like:

1. Is this guy for real/a flake?

2. When is he going to work on my site?

3. Is he just browsing facebook since I can't look over his shoulder?

4. What was he doing for 4 hours yesterday and nothing got deployed to the staging site?

Communication is really the thing that is going to set you apart, much moreso than your technical expertise.

To give you an idea, I opened my profile on oDesk with about 2.5 years of professional Rails development experience and started out around $25/hour for my first gig (gulp, a bit nervous admitting that I worked as a developer for $25/hour) - I was new to this freelancing thing and if I could go back, I would run screaming from that $25/hour client, feedback be damned. I raised my rate rather quickly however - I have since taken projects at hourly rates of $35, $50, $65, and $75.

Please note that this places me in the top 5% of successful freelancers on oDesk, and that I never worked for a client more than 20 hours per week. Yes, you're competing against folks who bid $2/hour and no, I have never spent a moment worrying about them. Nobody, and I mean nobody wants a client who values developer time at $2/hour.

Re: ODesk vs Elance vs Freelancer vs Guru

#52

Speaking as an employer: All of these sites have good workers, and all of them have workers who will turn in shoddy work, hoping you won't notice. I've hired for more than a dozen projects and in no case did the contractor do the job right the first time - because they didn't care enough, not because they were incompetent. I've hired workers in the US, in India, in the UK, and elsewhere. Same sorts of issues crop up.…

As a long time freelancer with a few purchased gigs as well: Quality of the workers or the turned in work is directly linked to the budget of a project. I've had many conversations on both sides of the table, where there was a miss-match and an eventual agreement to either bump up the budget or to lower the expectation. There's still risk in eventually receiving lame work, but I don't think that is the status quo. Th…

Elance could make it easier to find top providers if search results could be sorted by skills test results.

For whatever reason they choose not enable that feature.

Re: ODesk vs Elance vs Freelancer vs Guru

#54
post #37

Speaking as an employer: All of these sites have good workers, and all of them have workers who will turn in shoddy work, hoping you won't notice. I've hired for more than a dozen projects and in no case did the contractor do the job right the first time - because they didn't care enough, not because they were incompetent. I've hired workers in the US, in India, in the UK, and elsewhere. Same sorts of issues crop up.…

I am about to join oDesk as a freelancer. Coming out of college, I have basically limited experience behind me (internships, personal projects). Any advice you have for me about how to grow in the platform?

Any advice you have for me about how to grow in the platform?

One piece of advice, and just not about oDesk. Do reasonable work, don't silently miss deadlines, and always set expectation and communicate (never hide).

I've worked for some big-name Valley companies. If you just follow the advice above, you will be far ahead of the pack. (And that's even more true in the freelance world.) Good luck.

Re: ODesk vs Elance vs Freelancer vs Guru

#55
post #21

I used both Odesk and Freelancer to hire developers, and I urge everyone to look at my previous submission ( https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5177951 ) about deplorable protections at Freelancer.com. In summary, my $2500 project was closed by the developer at his will, with no money returned and no way to even leave a feedback! Multiple attempts asking the company to allow me to even leave a feedback came to noth…

People also tend to scam developers out of work without paying on these sites...

Re: ODesk vs Elance vs Freelancer vs Guru

#56

Longtime oDesker here, I've made mid 5 figures total. I recently received a notification from oDesk that I'm part of the top 5% of "successful freelancers" on oDesk which I interpreted to mean top 5% of earners. It honestly astounded me because my account has been basically inactive for the last 8 months and I've only worked on oDesk projects since a few months after I quit my job, roughly late 2011. I started workin…

"Additionally, just like the real world, there are endless people posting jobs expecting the moon in exchange for peanuts."

I know what you mean. One of the biggest problems I've faced hiring people via oDesk is quality assurance (finding a programmer who will use version control, provide test cases, deliver on their promise). There's some good talent on oDesk (it sounds like you're among the best), but oDesk doesn't specifically cater to the extraordinary, nor do they offer a satisfactory solution for high tier clients (like facebook or google). oDesk tries to be a one-size-fits all, which is enough for many clients.

For me, it's not enough. It doesn't meet my expectations as an engineer. I don't trust oDesk's filters to find a reputable opportunity and clients frequently are not qualified to vet candidates -- this results in me wasting time interviewing with clients. The lack of standardization (demonstrated by a large standard deviation in price and job quality) makes it challenging for talented specialists to get paid what they deserve.

Hackerlist.net has been experimenting with solutions to this problem (all our jobs are geared towards specialists and start at $100/h). There are several others services like grouptalent, gun.io, ooomfg, and toptal which are offering solutions of their own to attack different niches of structuring online opportunities.

Re: ODesk vs Elance vs Freelancer vs Guru

#57
post #46

Speaking as an employer: All of these sites have good workers, and all of them have workers who will turn in shoddy work, hoping you won't notice. I've hired for more than a dozen projects and in no case did the contractor do the job right the first time - because they didn't care enough, not because they were incompetent. I've hired workers in the US, in India, in the UK, and elsewhere. Same sorts of issues crop up.…

Agreed. Skills mean very little to me. There's a lot of great developers out there. The top workers finish projects and can communicate. I opt for the niche job boards such has http://www.gun.io or http://www.djangojobs.net as I can find good talent and it's much easier to screen people when I can hope on the phone. There's a real problem finding devs with softskills and so far it's a pain point that no one has gone…

I agree and finding great developers is a big part of the challenge. However, there's more to arranging a project then finding the right talent, especially for clients who have expectations for security, domain expertise, and quality assurance. Most platforms simply solve the matchmaking component (eharmony style). The solution is a platform which supports engineers' workflows (git, hg, etc) -- or at least this continues to be our philosophy and mission as we grow Hackerlist.net.

mjhea0, how do you typically structure projects after you've found someone who is a good fit? Do you use any additional services like invoicing, github/bitbucket, bug tracking, etc?

Re: ODesk vs Elance vs Freelancer vs Guru

#58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It isn't worth the time or effort to do so. I tried it out (elance) a couple of years ago as a worker. My impression of it is that basically it's a place for two kinds of employer: 1) the "I have this idea, code it up for me for equity in my 'company'" employers who either don't actually have an idea of what they want (and will needle you to flesh out their idea more fully) or have a generic "let's build the next X"…

Umm, no not really. I charge around 60$/hr on oDesk.Have closed to 5000 hours and can easily pull in upwards of 5K USD a month, which is an extra ordinary sum for someone sitting in a country in Pakistan where the conversion rate i 104 PKR to a USD.You can easily get well paying clients if you spend a little time building up your history, and are really good at what you do.

Well, I won't argue that some developers can do what you suggest. I'd be shocked if it weren't the case, in fact. My point wasn't meant to be applied universally to all the projects there. It was simply a statement of what I observed.

Re: ODesk vs Elance vs Freelancer vs Guru

#59
Ok the article seems to pretty outdated. 2011!! it woudln't have mattered if the facts were still valid but a lot of things changed, including policies and features of these sites. Not to mention vlancer got taken over by freelancer.com

So i'd advice people to keep this fact in mind when going through this, and not use this as the final word on the matter when comparing.

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