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Why the NBN needs to go the full way

callumj.com

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Re: Why the NBN needs to go the full way

#51

Post by threeseed »

paulftw wrote: post #41
jacques_chester wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Part of the problem is how badly it has been planned and managed from the very beginning. How fast is the actual rollout? We don't know. Commercial-in-confidence. And NBNCo say they don't keep figures down to the street level anyhow (which begs the question of which basis they are using to pay contractors). How much has already been borrowed? We don't know. Commercial-in-confidence. How much has been spent? We don't…

Spot on. When government is spending taxpayers' money it doesn't care about efficiency, only about getting a slice of the pie. Family members, business partners and overcharging contractors feast on these multibillion dollar projects, and only them. We've seen this happen with "Building the edu revolution", house insulation and so on. Porting bloody e-tax to Mac cost them $5.2 million. The smaller the spending on NBN…

Again with the competition/market will solve everything mantra. It's just rubbish.

If we leave it up to the market then only the profitable sectors will get high speed internet. The rest (i.e. rural and country areas, outer city, poor neighborhoods) will be left with the decrepitated copper system. How exactly does that help anyone or the economy ?

Re: Why the NBN needs to go the full way

#52

Post by 40 »

NamTaf wrote: post #35

The problem with the NBN is that Labor has, like so many other of their policies, sold it beyond terribly. It's about 2 things, and neither are raw download speed. 1) It's about upload speed. That's the major upgrade that we don't see right now. As the net moves towards more and more user-generated content (youtube, dropbox file relocation, etc.) it's going to be upload speeds that are the Achilles heel of these tech…

You can already find plenty case studies on the NBN here: http://www.nbn.gov.au/case-studies/ and here: http://www.nbnco.com.au/nbn-for-business/case-studies.html

The problem I see is that most are already possible with current internet speeds.

The ones like media production studios (http://www.nbnco.com.au/nbn-for-business/case-studies/increa...) do offer new opportunities which aren't possible with ADSL2.

The only issue here is that they can easily afford to pay the 2K for FTTH under the Coalition policy.

Re: Why the NBN needs to go the full way

#53

Post by jsmeaton »

gd1 wrote: post #39
sien wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apparently you will be able to pay for fibre all the way yourself. Turnbull says about 2K, the ALP 5K. Delimeter seems to indicate toward the lower value. http://delimiter.com.au/2013/08/23/open-deception-albanese-c...

Seems fair. Some quick maths says that 200 billion dollars (just you watch it blow out) / 30 million people = roughly $6600 per man, woman and child living in Australia. Probably $12k per taxpayer. Seems fair to make the user pay for a bit of that rather than dump the debt on the next generation. I know people don't like to let little things like numbers intrude on their socialist utopia, but this is real money I'm a…

We already are paying - with our taxes. Not to mention that this is an investment which will pay back to the government. NBNCo will be getting paid for use.

Pay-to-connect isn't available to the users who'd want it most - young people. And I don't just mean unaffordable. If you're renting, good luck convincing your land lord to splash out $4k every time you move.

Re: Why the NBN needs to go the full way

#54

Post by jsmeaton »

shirro wrote: post #10
cpayne wrote: post #6

I always thought it was a silly argument until I was using my laptop in London. Getting 20 meg downloads just blew my mind away. For me, it changed everything. (Non technical) friends just didn't bother with torrents anymore. It was easier for them to download a movie legitimately instead of all the mucking around...

Keep in mind that Rupert Murdoch owns half of Foxtel which is the main cable tv network in Australia as well as owning most of the newspapers (he has a monopoly in several states). The argument that you can watch tv from companies like Netflix under an NBN is one of the main reasons the opposition is getting an easy run from the media here. Every year Rupert is spared that is millions more in the bank. The ALP were a…

I'm surprised Labor didn't go on the attack against Murdoch a lot more.

Re: Why the NBN needs to go the full way

#55

Post by 40 »

zmmmmm wrote: post #7

I'm not sure that is all accurate (umm, light and electricity travel at the same speed ...), but I agree with the central idea: fibre is the next generation of technology, copper is the last. We can fully expect that just as massive speed increases were achieved on copper, so too will they be on fibre. Gen 1 of fibre is already 10x better than the last generation of copper - how much better will generation 2, 3, 4 be…

Which technology is being install that its "at the end of its generation". Surely FTTN will reduce the cost of FTTP. What is wrong with charging for FTTP - this is what UK is doing.

Re: Why the NBN needs to go the full way

#56

Post by Wingman4l7 »

threeseed wrote: post #42
sien wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apparently you will be able to pay for fibre all the way yourself. Turnbull says about 2K, the ALP 5K. Delimeter seems to indicate toward the lower value. http://delimiter.com.au/2013/08/23/open-deception-albanese-c...

Everyone is missing the real tragedy though. You can only pay for the fibre if you own the premises. Which basically means that anyone who rents will never have access to the NBN. Who typically rents ? Young people.

Oh, I'm sure the landlord would be happy to have the property improvement -- provided it was on the tenant's dime.

Re: Why the NBN needs to go the full way

#57

Post by 40 »

threeseed wrote: post #32
jacques_chester wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Part of the problem is how badly it has been planned and managed from the very beginning. How fast is the actual rollout? We don't know. Commercial-in-confidence. And NBNCo say they don't keep figures down to the street level anyhow (which begs the question of which basis they are using to pay contractors). How much has already been borrowed? We don't know. Commercial-in-confidence. How much has been spent? We don't…

I am so sick of this obsession with cost/benefit analysis. How can you possibly quantify the future benefits of the NBN ? Nobody could have predicted that when the copper lines were installed that one day it would be primarily used for the internet. And the historic changes to the world economy it has caused. So why even attempt to do it ? Or why not just say it will cost $50 billion but result in $500 trillion worth…

Australia is not the first to do FTTP. You don't have to wait, its already available in many countries.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fiber_to_the_premises_by_countr...

You can also look at how much people valued the additional speed, what new things they did, etc.

Wish someone would write an article summarising the overseas experience of FTTP.

Also, what is opportunity cost of NBN? Could we spend money to create a high-tech sector in Australia perhaps?

The ALP tend to use the NBN as a catch-all for tech policy - "don't worry we have innovation covered - its all the NBN".

Re: Why the NBN needs to go the full way

#58

Post by callumjones »

NamTaf wrote: post #35

The problem with the NBN is that Labor has, like so many other of their policies, sold it beyond terribly. It's about 2 things, and neither are raw download speed. 1) It's about upload speed. That's the major upgrade that we don't see right now. As the net moves towards more and more user-generated content (youtube, dropbox file relocation, etc.) it's going to be upload speeds that are the Achilles heel of these tech…

This is a way better explanation of what the NBN is.

Re: Why the NBN needs to go the full way

#59

Post by eru »

40 wrote: post #57
threeseed wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am so sick of this obsession with cost/benefit analysis. How can you possibly quantify the future benefits of the NBN ? Nobody could have predicted that when the copper lines were installed that one day it would be primarily used for the internet. And the historic changes to the world economy it has caused. So why even attempt to do it ? Or why not just say it will cost $50 billion but result in $500 trillion worth…

Australia is not the first to do FTTP. You don't have to wait, its already available in many countries. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fiber_to_the_premises_by_countr... You can also look at how much people valued the additional speed, what new things they did, etc. Wish someone would write an article summarising the overseas experience of FTTP. Also, what is opportunity cost of NBN? Could we spend money to create a hi…

> Wish someone would write an article summarising the overseas experience of FTTP.

Works well in Singapore. Just the cable that goes out form Singapore to, say, the US is not fat enough.

Re: Why the NBN needs to go the full way

#60

Post by zmmmmm »

40 wrote: post #55
zmmmmm wrote: post #7

I'm not sure that is all accurate (umm, light and electricity travel at the same speed ...), but I agree with the central idea: fibre is the next generation of technology, copper is the last. We can fully expect that just as massive speed increases were achieved on copper, so too will they be on fibre. Gen 1 of fibre is already 10x better than the last generation of copper - how much better will generation 2, 3, 4 be…

Which technology is being install that its "at the end of its generation". Surely FTTN will reduce the cost of FTTP. What is wrong with charging for FTTP - this is what UK is doing.

All of the curb side "nodes" that are full of gear to connect to DSL copper wires running down each street.
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