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How Poverty Taxes the Brain

theatlanticcities.com

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Re: How Poverty Taxes the Brain

#51

Post by Carltonian »

I'm witnessing this tax first hand right, but the tax is in a more literal sense. Some background: Right now my commute is about 35 minutes through Southern California (I live in Riverside and drive south to the Inland Empire). On Tuesday, my car was totaled. I was in the middle lane on a 3 lane highway when I saw someone coming up behind me a couple of miles before my exit, so I got over to the slow lane. Right as the car behind me was passing me in the middle lane, their tire exploded, spinning them into me, and spinning me across the freeway into the center divider.

This crash is an example of just how much money not having money costs. It wasn't an issue of the driver's unsafe driving, but of the driver's unsafe vehicle due to poor maintenance. Well, that driver doesn't even have insurance, let alone money to fix their balding tires. For now I'd agree with anyone that says it's their fault for driving it, because that's my insurance's stance and that's the stance that gets me reimbursed for my vehicle, but I can't help but see how if they wanted to fix the initial problem of poor maintenance and no insurance, then they'd need money, so they'd need to drive to work...

But it gets worse. My car handled the crash like a new car should. I was safe. I got a little whiplash but I felt fine and was back to work that day. Her car, much older than mine, flipped (exploding tires are about as bad as a car accident can get - keep up on your treads and watch the air pressure in the summer folks!) and she left the scene unconscious in an ambulance. Now I don't know what the statistics are, but my bet is if you don't have car insurance, you're note likely to have medical either. So this woman, who started too broke to replace her tires, now has whatever legal trouble one gets for not having insurance, has no drivable vehicle, huge medical bills, and whatever suit my insurance files against her.

Me, I'm fine, but I'm without a car (and I opted out of the rental car coverage, and she has no insurance to reimburse me for one), so in the name of frugality I start taking the bus. I go against traffic on my daily drive, so there aren't many routes, but there is one. It makes 93 stops between Downtown Riverside and my place of work. It takes about 2 hours 15 minutes with walking time. That's over an hour and a half longer than my commute driving. I'm on the bus with a few other people who make the same trip. Right now my life consists of waking up, walking to the bus, sitting on the bus, going to work, walking back to the bus, taking it home, walking home, eating a small meal, and going to bed to repeat the process tomorrow. Not to mention last night the bus was 2 hours late because of flash floods in Riverside. I got home after my bed time. Everyone this morning was taxed by pretty much all definitions of the word. Night class? Studying for that certificate to get a promotion? Reading a fucking novel? Ain't nobody got time for that.

Re: How Poverty Taxes the Brain

#52

Post by smallish »

bobbinsIII wrote: post #47
smallish wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are suggesting that maybe poor people just have lower IQ, but this study doesn't support that. It shows that cognitive performance between rich and poor is the same when they're asked questions which both groups consider easy and/or non-stressful.

the cognitive performance between rich and poor was the same in the sample they looked at (using their specific test). we know that is not true in general -- richer people are smarter on average.

Good point. What I mean to say is that the question of "who's smarter, rich or poor?" is not relevant to the study in question, and can't explain the results.

Re: How Poverty Taxes the Brain

#53

Post by joshdance »

I think this is related to the research that your willpower and energy is limited. When you have to make tough decisions over the course of the day you get run down, and start making worse decisions.

Re: How Poverty Taxes the Brain

#54

Post by AsymetricCom »

theorique wrote: post #27

What is correlation and what is causation? Is it possible that less intelligent people are shunted (through education, etc) into lower-paying jobs? Thus, it becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy.

It's more like busy people are too busy to read the article so they post flamboyant comments hoping to get a tldr.

Re: How Poverty Taxes the Brain

#55

Post by angersock »

kstenerud wrote: post #40
angersock wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have you ever tried to push code after not eating for three days because paying taxes wiped you out? It's a very different sort of distraction.

As a matter of fact, I have. Except that I still owed the taxman a lot of money, and was hitting up everyone I knew for loans to keep him off my back just a bit longer, all while working 16+ hour days, 7 days a week in an incubator, trying to get a new business off the ground so that I could get some money coming in and eventually pay everyone back. I learned a LOT of lessons in frugality, and as of last year I'm fin…

mmmmm yes golden bootstraps all around

Look, it's something that is surmountable, but we shouldn't for a second treat people in that situation with anything but compassion.

Re: How Poverty Taxes the Brain

#56

Post by angersock »

scott_s wrote: post #26
ritchiea wrote: post #14

I can speak to this. For a while in 2010 I was completely broke after leaving my first job out of college, which I hated, and having some other employment opportunities fall through. Having that little money changes your decision making process about absolutely everything. Obviously every financial decision is effected, even the tiniest purchases weigh into bigger questions like "will I have enough money in my bank a…

I observe this at the grocery store. The ones I visit have people from a wide range of economic status. When I go in, I grab what I need and don't think about price - it's almost always just the staples like bread, milk, fruit and eggs, and I know with certainty that I can afford it. And that I don't think about price is literally true until I'm told how much it costs, then I pay it, then I promptly stop thinking abo…

One of the most interesting domestic exercises is to think about how much different items cost in terms of other items.

A steak dinner (say, $50) is worth just a bit more than 3 double-meat Chipotle burritos with drink and chips and guac (say, $14). Each of those burrito meals is worth a bit more than 4 dozen eggs (say, fancy-pants eggs at $3/dz.) Each of those dozen eggs is worth 20 packs of shitty ramen ($.15/pack).

It's an exercise worth practicing, lest you find yourself one day needing to use that calculus.

EDIT:

This is also why buying Mississippi Mud ($4/qt. of passable black & tan) or Arizona RX energy drinks (~$1/can) is a good investment, as is rolling your own cigarettes or smoking pipes.

Re: How Poverty Taxes the Brain

#57

Post by crusso »

victoriap wrote: post #28
crusso wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, but you can get a startup company's technology going with Ruby, Python, or PHP. However, if you espouse an absolutist "victim of circumstances" ideology like the article: The finding further undercuts the theory that poor people, through inherent weakness, are responsible for their own poverty – or that they ought to be able to lift themselves out of it with enough effort. You are doomed.

As far as I see, it happens the following way. Some people see some article on HN, their mind flashes in dissonance. They upvote the next article which opposes that one. So that's why, right after we see an article defending X, we see one defending an anti-X, or not-X.

I'm sure that happens just the way you said.

I just think it's strange that people who would come to HN looking to learn more about entrepreneurial things would resonate much at all with "the environment determines outcomes, not the individual" type thinking.

Not only does that mindset doom entrepreneurial success, but I wonder why people with such a defeatist attitude toward self-improvement are here in the first place.

Re: How Poverty Taxes the Brain

#58

Post by homosaur »

Carltonian wrote: post #51

I'm witnessing this tax first hand right, but the tax is in a more literal sense. Some background: Right now my commute is about 35 minutes through Southern California (I live in Riverside and drive south to the Inland Empire). On Tuesday, my car was totaled. I was in the middle lane on a 3 lane highway when I saw someone coming up behind me a couple of miles before my exit, so I got over to the slow lane. Right as t…

You do have time to read, though. You just stated you have 2 hours on a bus.

Re: How Poverty Taxes the Brain

#59

Post by pjungwir »

msandford wrote: post #31
ritchiea wrote: post #14

I can speak to this. For a while in 2010 I was completely broke after leaving my first job out of college, which I hated, and having some other employment opportunities fall through. Having that little money changes your decision making process about absolutely everything. Obviously every financial decision is effected, even the tiniest purchases weigh into bigger questions like "will I have enough money in my bank a…

I agree with a lot of what you're saying but one thing that's always bugged me is how we account for sub-optimal decisions. What I mean is that if I make 60k per year and I choose to spend very little of it by driving an un-fancy car and cooking all my meals at home and living in a small apartment (perhaps with a roommate) I might be able to save half my net income. Or I could spend nearly all of that income on a big…

As someone who took a break from a good programming job to attend grad school (on a $20k/year stipend), I can say that for me the causality went poverty->stress. I've never had trouble with money management, but boy I sure sweated every little thing during those years. I was short with my wife and kids. I had sleepless nights. I had no idea how I would ever afford retirement or even health care. Now that I'm back to earning a good living my stress is way back down again. I feel my judgments are more considered, and I'm more confident in myself.

Re: How Poverty Taxes the Brain

#60

Post by crusso »

floobynewb wrote: post #36
crusso wrote: post #2

It's odd how HN upvotes both articles about learning how to think as well as articles that claim that people are doomed to their financial circumstances because of externalities. It's a strange schizophrenia in a community pursuing entrepreneurialism.

Where you say schizophrenia you probably mean split personality disorder. I am not even bothering to re-read your first sentence because of your perpetuation of this horrendous misuse of language.

Yes because pedantry is so much more meaningful than engaging in communication.
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