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Spy Kids

foreignpolicy.com

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Re: Spy Kids

#51

Post by aznjons »

In light of these predictions, I am more curious as to how governments will address this problem. I find it difficult that governments will easily give up on their surveillance goals.

The question then becomes how will they work around the shifting generational trend that Charlie has identified? For example, will they leverage new analytical technology that enables them to employ a smaller number of people by automating tasks?

For those of you who have read his Laundry Files novels, the SCORPION STARE network grants panopticon surveillance combined with lethal line-of-sight gorgonism emulation, which hypothetically enables automated control of a wide network of remote controlled camera weaponry to a few pilots instead of employing large numbers of people with guns.

Maybe Charlie has predictions as to how governments will automate their surveillance systems or other new ways of maintaining their control in their supposed mission to protect the people in the face of less loyal prospective workers?

Re: Spy Kids

#52

Post by eshvk »

msg wrote: post #12
finnh wrote: post #5

Charlie's argument is that the vast majority of people growing up today will not have sufficient loyalty to "the state" to fill the ranks of the state's spy apparatus. While I find it persuasive that people's loyalty to institutions may be in decline, that population-wide generalization is not dispositive for the hiring ability of spy agencies. You don't need an entire generation of loyalists to fill out the NSA. You…

"A" hires "A"; "B" hires "C". And Generation Z's "A" players will not work for the NSA. You don't just need loyalists. You need loyalists who are good enough to operate your systems, who are also conscience-free enough to dissociatively split what they're doing from how they do it, day to day. And you have to have 100% accuracy to avoid the next Snowden. Speaking as an engineer hiring for software, we are desperate f…

I read your entire argument. With its logic statements and your rambling about compilers and such. There are some assumptions you are making here:

1. Everyone who is "good at Computer Science" is automatically a logical person and is perfectly rational when it comes to everything they do in life. I am just going to point out the famous mathematician Ramanujan who was also intensely religious. Let us face it: Pure math is way harder than any computer science problem you are going to solve.

2. You are assuming that every single person who works for the NSA or has a sense of patriotism is necessarily a person whose ideology is influenced by Fox News.

Re: Spy Kids

#53

Post by shabble »

aznjons wrote: post #51

In light of these predictions, I am more curious as to how governments will address this problem. I find it difficult that governments will easily give up on their surveillance goals. The question then becomes how will they work around the shifting generational trend that Charlie has identified? For example, will they leverage new analytical technology that enables them to employ a smaller number of people by automat…

You might find "Rule 34"[1] has some interesting ideas for automation and control.

[1] http://www.amazon.com/Rule-34-Charles-Stross/dp/0441020348/c...

Re: Spy Kids

#54

Post by shabble »

showerst wrote: post #24
67726e wrote: post #2

If you get hit with a pay wall to read this article, just Google "spy_kids_nsa_surveillance_next_generation" and you should get the article as the first result. Then you can read it from there.

We have HN whitelisted from the paywall, so if you click through from the link on this page you shouldn't see the paywall as long as you don't have any extensions that hide your referrer. If that's not the case, would you mind dropping me an email with your browser/version? tim.showers@foreignpolicy.com

Works for me despite a global RefControl block, which is either a bug or feature :)

(FF23+RefControl+NoScript+ABP)

Re: Spy Kids

#55

Post by shabble »

randomstring wrote: post #41

This article reads like something out of Asimov's The Foundation series. The author seems to suggest that secrets will be impossible in the future because no one will have any loyalty to one organization. Oh, and we can blame the Economy, the Internet, and Facebook for that.

The obvious solution is more technology!

Neural Implants with TPM/DRM. Maybe we have it already, but your hippocampus doesn't think you have Need To Know.

I know it's been written about, but I can't remember where.

Re: Spy Kids

#56

Post by ratsbane »

showerst wrote: post #36
67726e wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My mistake, the large subscription popup that appears on page load appeared to be a paywall to me. It does allow you to exit from it, though it had me a bit confused.

Ah, I can see how that would be confusing. That's a one time thing (cookie based, so if you clear or use private browsing you'll see it more often). Thanks for the update, HN traffic is valuable to us and often generates interesting discussion, so I want to ensure that the paywal is disabled for it =).

I got the modal subscribe/login window also, though I don't immediately see anything to click to make it go away (without messing around in Firebug).

The current browser I'm using is Firefox 23.0.1 on OS X. My UA string is Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.7; rv:23.0) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/23.0

Thanks for speaking up. That's one of the great things about HN - primary sources standing by!

Re: Spy Kids

#57

Post by lifeformed »

67726e wrote: post #29
showerst wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We have HN whitelisted from the paywall, so if you click through from the link on this page you shouldn't see the paywall as long as you don't have any extensions that hide your referrer. If that's not the case, would you mind dropping me an email with your browser/version? tim.showers@foreignpolicy.com

My mistake, the large subscription popup that appears on page load appeared to be a paywall to me. It does allow you to exit from it, though it had me a bit confused.

I thought that was the article itself for a moment... it was full screen and article shaped!

Re: Spy Kids

#59

Post by eli_gottlieb »

cstross wrote: post #3
67726e wrote: post #2

If you get hit with a pay wall to read this article, just Google "spy_kids_nsa_surveillance_next_generation" and you should get the article as the first result. Then you can read it from there.

It's a development and expansion of my original argument, expressed here: http://www.antipope.org/charlie/blog-static/2013/08/snowden-...

As I noted on Reddit, at the very least you nailed your description of Gen Y. I was listening to featured-in-anime German-Japanese metal music just this morning ;-)!

Re: Spy Kids

#60

Post by rdtsc »

> The public perception of America [...] is diametrically opposed to the secretive practices of the surveillance state. [...] And when that happens, we see public servants who remain loyal to the abstract ideals conclude that the institution itself is committing treason.

How amateurish and infantile of them. Yes finally Stross gets to the point but notice that the institution is not really committing treason, it only those misbehaved idealistic young morons who conclude that. I guess I shouldn't expect anything more from FP

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