Are You A Bad Developer If You Don't Take On Side Projects? • Hacker News Board

Re: Are You A Bad Developer If You Don't Take On Side Projects?

#51

Post by jared314 » Tue, Aug 20, 2013, 6:10 PM UTC

zecho wrote: post #29

3pt14159 wrote: post #3

You will make more money if you have an active github account. For most people this means side projects/work. You will be a better developer if you code more. You will be exposed to more languages, tools, people, and ideas. If you don't code in your spare time, but you are happy where you are, don't feel like you are a bad developer, you just will not be as good at development as you could be. It is your life, why do…

I hear this quite often about Github and it's a bit disturbing to me. If I heard an editor judge an author's work based on what that author posts to twitter, I'd be horrified. I can't be the only person on Github that uses it primarily as a junk drawer full of bad implementations and abandoned "projects" that were more quick and dirty personal itches. Sometimes I'll contribute to random OSS, but the vast majority of…

> If I heard an editor judge an author's work based on what that author posts to twitter, I'd be horrified.

And yet, many potential hires are judged by their facebook posts[1,2], tweets, blog entries, and anything that can be found in a google search. All of this amounts to methods of elimination. You can treat it like a portfolio, but an active github account is just a cheap way to filter out possible negatives.

It is also good to mention that, unlike writers, a lot of programmers cannot show their previous work, because it is the private property of their current/previous employer.

[1] http://www.forbes.com/sites/kashmirhill/2012/03/05/facebook-...

[2] http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/2013/01/password-protected-...

Re: Are You A Bad Developer If You Don't Take On Side Projects?

#52

Post by soundoflight » Tue, Aug 20, 2013, 6:17 PM UTC

jt2190 wrote: post #11

From the Quora answer [1]: > I do attend (and give) technical talks; and perhaps most > importantly, I pick my day job based on learning and > growth opportunities: which company I’m working at, which > team I’m on, and which projects I take on. I stumbled > onto this a little bit by accident, but I discovered that > responsibilities in your day job that require you to > learn are a great forcing function for learnin…

I agree entirely and I think the author should have actually stuck that earlier in the article where people would actually read it.

Re: Are You A Bad Developer If You Don't Take On Side Projects?

#53

Post by hardwaresofton » Tue, Aug 20, 2013, 6:25 PM UTC

nukerhazz wrote: post #50

zecho wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I hear this quite often about Github and it's a bit disturbing to me. If I heard an editor judge an author's work based on what that author posts to twitter, I'd be horrified. I can't be the only person on Github that uses it primarily as a junk drawer full of bad implementations and abandoned "projects" that were more quick and dirty personal itches. Sometimes I'll contribute to random OSS, but the vast majority of…

This is why I use Bitbucket, with its unlimited private repos, for that junk drawer. I can keep my throwaways and false starts private.

Very true - I use Assembla!

Re: Are You A Bad Developer If You Don't Take On Side Projects?

#54

Post by lrobb » Tue, Aug 20, 2013, 6:26 PM UTC

The fact that this is even a question at all, let alone one that could make it on to forbes, is symptomatic of the tech industry being a giant echo chamber. Are you a bad [lawyer | accountant | civil engineer | doctor | musician] if you don't take on side projects?

Re: Are You A Bad Developer If You Don't Take On Side Projects?

#55

Post by cgore » Tue, Aug 20, 2013, 6:28 PM UTC

zecho wrote: post #29

3pt14159 wrote: post #3

You will make more money if you have an active github account. For most people this means side projects/work. You will be a better developer if you code more. You will be exposed to more languages, tools, people, and ideas. If you don't code in your spare time, but you are happy where you are, don't feel like you are a bad developer, you just will not be as good at development as you could be. It is your life, why do…

I hear this quite often about Github and it's a bit disturbing to me. If I heard an editor judge an author's work based on what that author posts to twitter, I'd be horrified. I can't be the only person on Github that uses it primarily as a junk drawer full of bad implementations and abandoned "projects" that were more quick and dirty personal itches. Sometimes I'll contribute to random OSS, but the vast majority of…

I think judging an author from their tweets is a horrible idea, but what about their blog? That seems reasonable. If anything, the average 'technical' interview is closer to the Twitter idea, with lots of code golf questions, but you can see what a person can really do and really likes to do on Github.

Re: Are You A Bad Developer If You Don't Take On Side Projects?

#56

Post by erichmond » Tue, Aug 20, 2013, 6:36 PM UTC

edw519 wrote: post #39

3pt14159 wrote: post #3

You will make more money if you have an active github account. For most people this means side projects/work. You will be a better developer if you code more. You will be exposed to more languages, tools, people, and ideas. If you don't code in your spare time, but you are happy where you are, don't feel like you are a bad developer, you just will not be as good at development as you could be. It is your life, why do…

You will make more money if you have an active github account. For most people this means side projects/work. More than what? The highest earning programmers I know have never heard of github and would never consider using it. You will be a better developer if you code more. You will be exposed to more languages, tools, people, and ideas. You will be a better developer if you deliver more. "More languages, tools, peo…

Hopefully this attitude becomes more prevalent in the industry, the pendulum has swung too far to the other side.

Re: Are You A Bad Developer If You Don't Take On Side Projects?

#57

Post by tieTYT » Tue, Aug 20, 2013, 6:38 PM UTC

zecho wrote: post #29

3pt14159 wrote: post #3

You will make more money if you have an active github account. For most people this means side projects/work. You will be a better developer if you code more. You will be exposed to more languages, tools, people, and ideas. If you don't code in your spare time, but you are happy where you are, don't feel like you are a bad developer, you just will not be as good at development as you could be. It is your life, why do…

I hear this quite often about Github and it's a bit disturbing to me. If I heard an editor judge an author's work based on what that author posts to twitter, I'd be horrified. I can't be the only person on Github that uses it primarily as a junk drawer full of bad implementations and abandoned "projects" that were more quick and dirty personal itches. Sometimes I'll contribute to random OSS, but the vast majority of…

Yeah I agree this is pretty scary. Two of my clojure projects on github are from when I was learning the language. I'm much better at clojure now, but the public facing code is junk because I was in proof of concept mode, not fluent, idiomatic mode.

I'm torn. Do I leave it up there to show that I enjoy learning new technology in my free time, or do I take it down because it's not coded in the professional quality I hold myself to at work?

Re: Are You A Bad Developer If You Don't Take On Side Projects?

#58

Post by brianpgordon » Tue, Aug 20, 2013, 6:44 PM UTC

edw519 wrote: post #39

3pt14159 wrote: post #3

You will make more money if you have an active github account. For most people this means side projects/work. You will be a better developer if you code more. You will be exposed to more languages, tools, people, and ideas. If you don't code in your spare time, but you are happy where you are, don't feel like you are a bad developer, you just will not be as good at development as you could be. It is your life, why do…

You will make more money if you have an active github account. For most people this means side projects/work. More than what? The highest earning programmers I know have never heard of github and would never consider using it. You will be a better developer if you code more. You will be exposed to more languages, tools, people, and ideas. You will be a better developer if you deliver more. "More languages, tools, peo…

> Personally, I never show code samples. I'll gladly go through the right company's process, including coding for them. But they don't get to see anything I've ever done before out of context and without proper permissions. And personally, I will never work for anyone with hard and fast rules about hiring. 3pt14159 is choosing to not consider many of the best programmers who refuse to show their underwear. His loss.

This is a pretty bizarre position. Don't you have any code that's carefully prepared and that you think represents your ability to at least write clean code? And wouldn't you rather show a potential employer that carefully prepared code than trying to whip something up on the spot?

Also, a lot of things like showing off your chops at configuring complicated builds with, say, maven or ant can hardly be demonstrated in an interview or an overnight coding assignment. You need to have a nontrivial project prepared to show that you can write a nontrivial project.

Re: Are You A Bad Developer If You Don't Take On Side Projects?

#59

Post by andy_adams » Tue, Aug 20, 2013, 6:46 PM UTC

jobu wrote: post #20

My kids are my side projects. I used to be worried about how they affected my career, but three years ago a bicycle accident put me in the hospital for a week and I completely reevaluated my life. It's a little sad (and a bit of a cliché) that it took nearly dying to realize their importance, but now I just smile and think about my kids when someone talks about their amazing project.

I have 2 little ones. When my oldest was growing from 0-2, I can remember nearly every moment. I was at an unexciting 9-5 job.

As my youngest goes from 0-1, I've been working lots of projects via my own consultancy. I look at him and can't believe how much I've missed. I'm currently shifting gears to get back to focusing on my family. I'm still new at this, but it's pretty clear programming/career is so far below family in importance, I need to adjust my life accordingly.

Re: Are You A Bad Developer If You Don't Take On Side Projects?

#60

Post by alok-g » Tue, Aug 20, 2013, 6:48 PM UTC

kasey_junk wrote: post #33

3pt14159 wrote: post #3

You will make more money if you have an active github account. For most people this means side projects/work. You will be a better developer if you code more. You will be exposed to more languages, tools, people, and ideas. If you don't code in your spare time, but you are happy where you are, don't feel like you are a bad developer, you just will not be as good at development as you could be. It is your life, why do…

How does your no hiring without code samples work when it comes to IP encumbered industries? I for one haven't worked without a NDA that includes my code for over 10 years, and neither have any of the people on my current team. Further, contributing to open source projects (outside of what I do for my employer) is also problematic, because nearly all the things I'm interested in/expert in are very related to what I d…

This exactly. As I have written in many comments before, a large set of people have such IP issues from their employment contracts without even realizing that they "too" have such issues. From the discussions that resulted in those comments, my understanding is that unless you find your case to be otherwise, if you are working for someone else in the tech sector, by default you are under an employment contract that prevents you from having side-projects of your own. This seems to vary between countries somewhat. If you have not even read your contract, or were not even aware that you signed one, please do not retaliate before actually confirming your case.

If someone has side projects on Github, it may reveal something (good or bad) about their coding skills [1], but it also reveals, most probably, their lack of understanding of legal and IP issues [1]. (It may in principle be telling about their risk-thresholds if they were aware of the legal issues and still took the risk, but this is not the most probable case.)

In various discussions I have had on the topic, even companies who otherwise are open to their employees having side projects nevertheless block them from the same in their employment contracts. In other words, if it all goes well for the company, it's fine, but if things go wrong, the employee may be under a big trouble.

[1] While telling nothing on this front, good or bad, about the same for people without such side projects on Github or elsewhere.