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Edward Snowden’s Email Provider Shuts Down Amid Secret Court Battle

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Re: Edward Snowden’s Email Provider Shuts Down Amid Secret Court Battle

#51

Post by dictum »

Buzaga wrote: post #27
conductor wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If this is happening in the USA with its famous constitution, then well, I think the end of this statement can be easily converted just to _any_country_.

That is absurd. Do you think every country, and every country folk, would let the government pass a bulldozer all over their rights like this? This is just projecting. In other words, that shit wouldn't fly everywhere, for sure. This all emanates from the 9/11 and Patriot Act and Secret Laws with no oversight, that's your problem specifically, of course every government must be wanting it's own surveillance supermach…

>Do you think every country, and every country folk, would let the government pass a bulldozer all over their rights like this?

If your government is not willing to pass a bulldozer over its rights, the US are more than willing to bulldoze your government.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CIA_activities_in_Brazil

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1964_Brazilian_coup_d%27%C3%A9...

Re: Edward Snowden’s Email Provider Shuts Down Amid Secret Court Battle

#53

Post by cdjk »

shasta wrote: post #31
cheald wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I will put dollars to donuts they were after Snowden's contact list. They want to know about his deadman's switch, who holds the keys, and who they have to squeeze to defuse that particular landline.

They're not asking for any particular information that lavabit has now. If they were, shutting down wouldn't be a solution to not handing it over. They are asking for additional access going forward.

But that additional access would probably include various keys that would let them decrypt previous communication. Maybe the order was to log passwords on login, or something like that, that would allow recovery of the key and decryption of stored data, which may not be possible depending on the original architecture of the system.

Re: Edward Snowden’s Email Provider Shuts Down Amid Secret Court Battle

#54

Post by solistice »

ChuckMcM wrote: post #38
oleganza wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Who would risk their own life to do that for "the good of many"? People like Snowden are exceptions, not a rule, because the guns are out there pointed to everyone. Why don't we instead of asking individual heroes to fight a killing machine called "the state", do that: 1. Acknowledge the evil of the state. 2. Find practical non-violent ways to boycott it. E.g. blacklist personally everyone involved in violent aggress…

> Who would risk their own life to do that for "the good of many"? People who feel strongly about what is right, versus what the law says, do.

Hell, do it for your own self interest. If a country with indefinite detentions, broad spying on the public and government strongarming of businesses for "national security" reasons is a place you don't want to live in, help fight against it.

The group dynamic of "yeah, someone will stand up for us" is what creates situations like this in the first place.

Re: Edward Snowden’s Email Provider Shuts Down Amid Secret Court Battle

#56

Post by solistice »

RyanMcGreal wrote: post #16
conductor wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If this is happening in the USA with its famous constitution, then well, I think the end of this statement can be easily converted just to _any_country_.

What makes the American Constitution exceptional is not its content but the fact that it was written in the late 18th century. In the intervening two centuries, several other industrialized liberal democracies have adopted constitutions that are broader and more inclusive than the Bill of Rights.

But clutter isn't what makes a legal document effective. I'd rather have a concise definition of what is a right and what not than pages upon pages of dancing around that issue.

Re: Edward Snowden’s Email Provider Shuts Down Amid Secret Court Battle

#57

Post by jberryman »

ChuckMcM wrote: post #17

So for those of you wondering about Jury nullification, the way it would work in this case is that Levison would reveal that the NSA was hounding him with NSL letters, they would charge him with violating the terms of the NSL and the jury would acquit him anyway. I hope we can get a case like that to move that aspect of the conversation forward. It helped get bad laws off the books in the civil rights cases and it wo…

> It helped get bad laws off the books in the civil rights cases and it would help here.

I'm assuming you're referring to Rosa Parks-style civil disobedience and not so-called "jury nullification". The latter had an important role in the history of the civil rights mvt, but not a pretty one.

Re: Edward Snowden’s Email Provider Shuts Down Amid Secret Court Battle

#58

Post by betterunix »

sillysaurus wrote: post #44
betterunix wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It already exists. Use PGP, send messages through anonymous remailers. If you cannot use anonymous remailers, post messages to Usenet in alt.anonymous.messages using Tor. If not Tor, then via a proxy server. If none of the above, just make sure you are not doing it from your house. If even that is impossible, know that traffic analysis will be possible. Why is this something that needs to be repeated to the technical…

Tor is funded directly by the US govt. Something like 60-80% of their annual million-dollar budget. Maybe being superstitious isn't helpful, but in this instance, I'm not so sure Tor is able to be relied on. A proxy server won't work for the same reason a personal server wouldn't work. It's tied to you eventually, either through a paper trail or a packet trail. Oh, and drop the condescending attitude, okay?

"Maybe being superstitious isn't helpful, but in this instance, I'm not so sure Tor is able to be relied on."

Tor has been analyzed extensively by cryptographers and security researchers; there is literally a mountain of published research about it. It is operated by an independent organization. I would be more cautious about the Linux kernel, a vastly larger codebase that could and probably does have numerous back doors, than about Tor.

"A proxy server won't work for the same reason a personal server wouldn't work. It's tied to you eventually, either through a paper trail or a packet trail."

Which is why it is below anonymous remailers and Tor on my list. Proxy servers are better than nothing at all.

Re: Edward Snowden’s Email Provider Shuts Down Amid Secret Court Battle

#59

Post by paulnechifor »

betterunix wrote: post #40
mililani wrote: post #35

So, since HN is filled with smart engineers, how should one build a sustainable, fully encrypted email service untouchable by the Feds?

It already exists. Use PGP, send messages through anonymous remailers. If you cannot use anonymous remailers, post messages to Usenet in alt.anonymous.messages using Tor. If not Tor, then via a proxy server. If none of the above, just make sure you are not doing it from your house. If even that is impossible, know that traffic analysis will be possible. Why is this something that needs to be repeated to the technical…

It exists in the same way tablets have existed for a very long time.

But we don't just communicate with technically skilled people. Something that can be used by everybody and can be trusted would be really awesome.

Re: Edward Snowden’s Email Provider Shuts Down Amid Secret Court Battle

#60

Post by AnthonyMouse »

RyanMcGreal wrote: post #16
conductor wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If this is happening in the USA with its famous constitution, then well, I think the end of this statement can be easily converted just to _any_country_.

What makes the American Constitution exceptional is not its content but the fact that it was written in the late 18th century. In the intervening two centuries, several other industrialized liberal democracies have adopted constitutions that are broader and more inclusive than the Bill of Rights.

There are very few countries with as broad a constitutional protection for speech as the United States.

The problem now is that we have a government which has discovered effective work arounds for those protections. The government can pressure intermediaries who don't have the right incentives to vigorously defend their users by going to court, and then the actual targets of First Amendment violations never encounter a court proceeding in which to raise a constitutional defense, they just get cut off by the "private" service provider. The government can try to gag everyone involved so that, again, the people whose privacy or right to anonymous speech is invaded are never told and so they can't challenge the constitutionality of the invasion.

If any of this could be challenged in a public court proceeding there is a good chance the courts would find it unconstitutional. That's why they're twisting themselves into such contortions to make sure that never happens.

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