From PhD to Data Scientist: Tips for Making the Transition • Hacker News Board

Re: From PhD to Data Scientist: Tips for Making the Transition

#51

Post by dev1n » Thu, Aug 01, 2013, 12:18 AM UTC

Blahah wrote: post #45

dev1n wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe you could help me out here. I'm split on the whole data science in research vs business. I'm an undergrad Senior majoring in CS (minors in math and Computational Science). All the data science jobs I see for research firms require a PhD. I'd much rather work for a research firm than as an analyst for a business (I think). Any suggestions for someone looking to get some experience before pursuing more schooling?…

Depending on where you are in the world, you could consider applying for computational jobs at some of the biotech giants (or startups, depending on your cultural preference). There are plenty on the US west coast and around Boston, Seattle, etc. An alternative is to get a programming job doing something relevant (e.g. something with applied machine learning) and use those skills to work on open-source bio projects i…

Cool. Thanks for the advice. My game plan was pretty much just that. Get a solid programming job doing (preferably) some stats work after graduation (maybe the company will pay for grad school?) and then move on from there. I just wanted to make sure there wasn't one weird trick to landing a research job in data science.

Re: From PhD to Data Scientist: Tips for Making the Transition

#52

Post by dev1n » Thu, Aug 01, 2013, 12:25 AM UTC

singingfish wrote: post #50

dev1n wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe you could help me out here. I'm split on the whole data science in research vs business. I'm an undergrad Senior majoring in CS (minors in math and Computational Science). All the data science jobs I see for research firms require a PhD. I'd much rather work for a research firm than as an analyst for a business (I think). Any suggestions for someone looking to get some experience before pursuing more schooling?…

Most jobs in high tech that push on the fronteirs of scientific knowledge that have a group leadership role need a PhD in charge of the team. Back when I worked in biotech, around 3/4 to 5/6ths of the team leaders had PhDs. I wouldn't expect this to have changed. For a commercially viable biotech company, salaries are pretty decent at that level.

That makes sense though. One would definitely want someone in a leadership position with a lot of experience and knowledge, especially at a biotech firm.

Re: From PhD to Data Scientist: Tips for Making the Transition

#53

Post by suchire » Thu, Aug 01, 2013, 12:26 AM UTC

_delirium wrote: post #40

daemonk wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am graduating phd bioinformatician, most likely going to transition into industry. It's very easy to be caught up with the self importance of academia because you are essentially in a bubble. It's great to be passionate about science, but I really dislike religifying academia. It's almost expected of aspiring academics to live like monks and just to be okay with shitty pay and long hours. That's bullshit and academ…

> shitty pay I can see this complaint in humanities academia, but pay in the sciences past the PhD student level is pretty reasonable. You could probably make more elsewhere, but it's not like you're scraping by on ramen noodles as a bioinformatics professor or anything. Postdocs typically make $50-60k, and professors start at something like $90k at the minimum, easily up to $120k, $150k, or more after tenure, especi…

Postdocs in biological/physical sciences are easily 3-6 years for Meanwhile the postdoc could have been making $100-120k for a profession where the job market is almost the polar opposite, which makes a difference for job security/stress. The 2x-4x salary difference, especially during the late 20s and early 30s, is a pretty big deal, especially if you're able to save that extra 2x-4x.

The even crappier pay in humanities makes it basically undoable except for the upper class or outsizedly talented. The low pay in science makes it doable for normal people, but there is a strong financial incentive not to.

Re: From PhD to Data Scientist: Tips for Making the Transition

#54

Post by advice4u » Thu, Aug 01, 2013, 12:32 AM UTC

Blahah wrote: post #38

rgovind wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What skills do we need to learn to get into such a position? That is apart from statistics and programming? How much effort will go into learning that stuff?

If you had most of these things I think you would have a good shot at a compbio position: - statistics, probability, and especially probabilistic inference - nix/gnutools - multiple scripting languages (Ruby, Python, Perl, BASH) - at least one data-oriented language (R, Octave) - understanding of molecular biology (read Molecular Biology of the Cell) - applying machine learning tools to new problems - understanding t…

This is something I would really love to do. Where do you work (in academia, I presume)?

I have the programming background, and a bit of the bio background... but I am weak on statistics. How much of statistics and probability theory would I need (beyond a basic 1st-year college level)?

Re: From PhD to Data Scientist: Tips for Making the Transition

#55

Post by unmei » Thu, Aug 01, 2013, 12:35 AM UTC

_delirium wrote: post #40

daemonk wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am graduating phd bioinformatician, most likely going to transition into industry. It's very easy to be caught up with the self importance of academia because you are essentially in a bubble. It's great to be passionate about science, but I really dislike religifying academia. It's almost expected of aspiring academics to live like monks and just to be okay with shitty pay and long hours. That's bullshit and academ…

> shitty pay I can see this complaint in humanities academia, but pay in the sciences past the PhD student level is pretty reasonable. You could probably make more elsewhere, but it's not like you're scraping by on ramen noodles as a bioinformatics professor or anything. Postdocs typically make $50-60k, and professors start at something like $90k at the minimum, easily up to $120k, $150k, or more after tenure, especi…

NIH trainee pay scale: http://grants.nih.gov/grants/guide/notice-files/NOT-OD-12-03...

Depending on the institution, you may make slightly more than the minimum (starting at $39K), but postdocs in the sciences do not 'typically' make $50-$60K. As a monetary investment, academia is about as poor a bet as you can make: spend 5-6 years making ~$25K then another 3-5 years below $50K. Then you might be able to start making professor money if you're in hot field and willing to sell your soul to your work.

Re: From PhD to Data Scientist: Tips for Making the Transition

#56

Post by dev1n » Thu, Aug 01, 2013, 12:35 AM UTC

tmarthal wrote: post #17

besquared wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're everything that everyone hates in academia. Congratulations as I hear that self importance is one of the key ingredients to solving the biggest problems facing the world today.

Well, I would posit that the majority of data science positions are in advertising and marketing optimization. I would believe that 'global food security' may be more important than social media analysis, as the original posted speculated. Not to belittle the meaningful point, but becoming a "data scientist" at a startup or large corporation that makes their money by advertising is analogous to becoming a 'quant' on…

I mean, developing a new algorithm for data analysis could be just as important to the OP as analyzing bio data to forecast some sort of disease is to someone else.

Re: From PhD to Data Scientist: Tips for Making the Transition

#57

Post by jurassic » Thu, Aug 01, 2013, 12:41 AM UTC

_delirium wrote: post #40

daemonk wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am graduating phd bioinformatician, most likely going to transition into industry. It's very easy to be caught up with the self importance of academia because you are essentially in a bubble. It's great to be passionate about science, but I really dislike religifying academia. It's almost expected of aspiring academics to live like monks and just to be okay with shitty pay and long hours. That's bullshit and academ…

> shitty pay I can see this complaint in humanities academia, but pay in the sciences past the PhD student level is pretty reasonable. You could probably make more elsewhere, but it's not like you're scraping by on ramen noodles as a bioinformatics professor or anything. Postdocs typically make $50-60k, and professors start at something like $90k at the minimum, easily up to $120k, $150k, or more after tenure, especi…

This response tells me you've never been in the science trenches. I've never heard of a postdoc making anywhere close to 60k, even at elite schools in high COL areas. The financial opportunity cost is staggering.

Re: From PhD to Data Scientist: Tips for Making the Transition

#58

Post by _delirium » Thu, Aug 01, 2013, 12:45 AM UTC

unmei wrote: post #55

_delirium wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> shitty pay I can see this complaint in humanities academia, but pay in the sciences past the PhD student level is pretty reasonable. You could probably make more elsewhere, but it's not like you're scraping by on ramen noodles as a bioinformatics professor or anything. Postdocs typically make $50-60k, and professors start at something like $90k at the minimum, easily up to $120k, $150k, or more after tenure, especi…

NIH trainee pay scale: http://grants.nih.gov/grants/guide/notice-files/NOT-OD-12-03... Depending on the institution, you may make slightly more than the minimum (starting at $39K), but postdocs in the sciences do not 'typically' make $50-$60K. As a monetary investment, academia is about as poor a bet as you can make: spend 5-6 years making ~$25K then another 3-5 years below $50K. Then you might be able to start makin…

Interesting, that's lower than the people I know. They lean more towards the machine-learning side of bioinformatics (plus people in straight AI, not bio-related), and generally make around $50k, some $55k, at research institutions in the US.

Sounds like recent American graduates may want to start reading the job listings in Europe, though. A postdoc where I teach in Denmark has a minimum civil-service salary of ~$55k, and in Switzerland the going rate is well above that: a friend works in Lugano, fresh out of grad school, for somewhere in the neighborhood of $80k, although that's a bit above the norm. Postdoc candidates with strong tech skills have good demand at institutions with large EU projects, so they're not lottery-win positions either.

Re: From PhD to Data Scientist: Tips for Making the Transition

#59

Post by _delirium » Thu, Aug 01, 2013, 12:47 AM UTC

jurassic wrote: post #57

_delirium wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> shitty pay I can see this complaint in humanities academia, but pay in the sciences past the PhD student level is pretty reasonable. You could probably make more elsewhere, but it's not like you're scraping by on ramen noodles as a bioinformatics professor or anything. Postdocs typically make $50-60k, and professors start at something like $90k at the minimum, easily up to $120k, $150k, or more after tenure, especi…

This response tells me you've never been in the science trenches. I've never heard of a postdoc making anywhere close to 60k, even at elite schools in high COL areas. The financial opportunity cost is staggering.

Well, you'd be incorrect, since I'm currently a science academic. Have you checked what Stanford, or Georgia Tech, or UT-Austin pay postdocs with machine-learning or data-mining experience, in the past 5 years? There are definitely areas that pay less, but bioinformatics, if by that you mean people with serious computational skills, pays above the norm.

Re: From PhD to Data Scientist: Tips for Making the Transition

#60

Post by rdouble » Thu, Aug 01, 2013, 12:50 AM UTC

_delirium wrote: post #59

jurassic wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This response tells me you've never been in the science trenches. I've never heard of a postdoc making anywhere close to 60k, even at elite schools in high COL areas. The financial opportunity cost is staggering.

Well, you'd be incorrect, since I'm currently a science academic. Have you checked what Stanford, or Georgia Tech, or UT-Austin pay postdocs with machine-learning or data-mining experience, in the past 5 years? There are definitely areas that pay less, but bioinformatics, if by that you mean people with serious computational skills, pays above the norm.

Getting a postdoc at Stanford has the same probability as playing in the NBA. Only you get paid $60K instead of $60M.