Microsoft drove the bus off the cliff, now it tries to speed up • Hacker News Board

Re: Microsoft drove the bus off the cliff, now it tries to speed up

#51

Post by jussij » Tue, Jul 23, 2013, 6:07 AM UTC

corresation wrote: post #48

jussij wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> because this purported big Android windfall still fails to appear on any Microsoft quarterly report It shows up under the reporting of the Windows Phone Division: “Windows Phone revenue, reflecting patent licensing revenue and sales of Windows Phone licenses, increased $222 million for the quarter,” http://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2011/10/micros... > Given the actual reality that these dollar amounts…

It shows up under the reporting of the Windows Phone Division Windows Phone exists in the entertainment division, which is a division that neither pulls in big numbers, nor actually produces a profit. For the most recent quarter it still lost over $100MM. If these massive Android profits are hidden in there -- in a division that hosts both the xbox and Windows Phone, and has revenue of just two billion a quarter -- t…

There's plenty of evidence Microsoft is making money on Android sales as companies selling Android keep announcing patent licensing deals with Microsoft.

Here is just one such an agreement:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/2013/apr/24/zte-android...

Also, from that link, it suggests Microsoft now has 80% of the Android market covered by similar license agreements.

As to the size of those royalty payments, who’s to know. Companies always keep those kind of details under wraps.

But I doubt very much Microsoft is going to go easy on them. Why would they?

And those patents don't only affect Android.

Microsoft recently forced Tom Tom to licence their technology as well.

http://news.cnet.com/8301-13860_3-10206988-56.html

It is no wonder Google is fighting hard against patents.

As the grow Android, Microsoft comes along for free, courtesy of their patent war chest.

Edit: It appears Google owned Motorola is trying to fight these Microsoft patents but they appear to be losing:

http://www.fosspatents.com/2013/04/google-loses-appeal-again...

http://www.fosspatents.com/2012/05/itc-orders-import-ban-aga...

Re: Microsoft drove the bus off the cliff, now it tries to speed up

#52

Post by corresation » Tue, Jul 23, 2013, 1:27 PM UTC

jussij wrote: post #51

corresation wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It shows up under the reporting of the Windows Phone Division Windows Phone exists in the entertainment division, which is a division that neither pulls in big numbers, nor actually produces a profit. For the most recent quarter it still lost over $100MM. If these massive Android profits are hidden in there -- in a division that hosts both the xbox and Windows Phone, and has revenue of just two billion a quarter -- t…

There's plenty of evidence Microsoft is making money on Android sales as companies selling Android keep announcing patent licensing deals with Microsoft. Here is just one such an agreement: http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/2013/apr/24/zte-android... Also, from that link, it suggests Microsoft now has 80% of the Android market covered by similar license agreements. As to the size of those royalty payments, who’s t…

Also, from that link, it suggests Microsoft now has 80% of the Android market covered by similar license agreements.

Are you actually replying to my posts, or just repeating the same content repeatedly? Yes, Microsoft keeps announcing agreements -- almost universally with companies that produce Windows Phone devices, who play along with this charade -- yet there is zero evidence in their profits that any of these deals are netting a dollar of revenue, further supported by the fact that Microsoft goes to great lengths to hide this income.

But I doubt very much Microsoft is going to go easy on them. Why would they?

Because they won't go easy on Microsoft? Microsoft is trying to make the transition to hardware (where the big money is now), and it turns out that all of those companies that Microsoft is yielding agreements have massive troves of patents that can demolish and eliminate Microsoft from the market.

It appears Google owned Motorola is trying to fight these Microsoft patents but they appear to be losing

Motorola told Microsoft to get lost (all Microsoft wanted, as an aside, was that Motorola keep making Windows Phone devices. That was the entirety of their demands when they didn't "go easy" on Motorola), and thus far Microsoft's effect on Motorola has been....nothing. Absolutely nothing. A couple of fringe patents that will get beaten back and beaten back.

Re: Microsoft drove the bus off the cliff, now it tries to speed up

#53

Post by jussij » Tue, Jul 23, 2013, 11:51 PM UTC

corresation wrote: post #52

jussij wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's plenty of evidence Microsoft is making money on Android sales as companies selling Android keep announcing patent licensing deals with Microsoft. Here is just one such an agreement: http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/2013/apr/24/zte-android... Also, from that link, it suggests Microsoft now has 80% of the Android market covered by similar license agreements. As to the size of those royalty payments, who’s t…

Also, from that link, it suggests Microsoft now has 80% of the Android market covered by similar license agreements. Are you actually replying to my posts, or just repeating the same content repeatedly? Yes, Microsoft keeps announcing agreements -- almost universally with companies that produce Windows Phone devices, who play along with this charade -- yet there is zero evidence in their profits that any of these dea…

> yet there is zero evidence in their profits that any of these deals are netting a dollar of revenue

I'm sorry but I just don't believe you when you say there is zero evidence of them making money. They will be making big money.

Why on earth would any company license its technology for zero revenue gain?

> there is zero evidence

As noted earlier, from the latest Microsoft quaterly reporting figures:

Windows Phone revenue, reflecting patent licensing revenue and sales of Windows Phone licenses, increased $222 million.

http://www.microsoft.com/investor/EarningsAndFinancials/Earn...

So Windows Phone revenue is up $222 million for the quarter, which means they are either selling lots of Windows phones or they're making money from their patent licensing agreements.

It must be one or the other. Take your pick. I know which one I'd choose.

Re: Microsoft drove the bus off the cliff, now it tries to speed up

#54

Post by corresation » Thu, Jul 25, 2013, 2:25 AM UTC

jussij wrote: post #53

corresation wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also, from that link, it suggests Microsoft now has 80% of the Android market covered by similar license agreements. Are you actually replying to my posts, or just repeating the same content repeatedly? Yes, Microsoft keeps announcing agreements -- almost universally with companies that produce Windows Phone devices, who play along with this charade -- yet there is zero evidence in their profits that any of these dea…

> yet there is zero evidence in their profits that any of these deals are netting a dollar of revenue I'm sorry but I just don't believe you when you say there is zero evidence of them making money . They will be making big money. Why on earth would any company license its technology for zero revenue gain? > there is zero evidence As noted earlier, from the latest Microsoft quaterly reporting figures: Windows Phone r…

It must be one or the other. Take your pick. I know which one I'd choose.

Windows Phone has been doing remarkably well for the niche it holds. I mean, it is in the dark shadows of Android and iOS, but a couple of years ago it would have been held as stellar smartphone results.

Given that WP is estimated to be licensed at between $20 and $35 per (even though shenanigans see Microsoft returning all of that money to Nokia, it still counts as bogo-revenue), and there were some ten million Windows Phone devices activated, yes, that sum absolutely is accounted for by Windows Phone.

And then you have the fact that Microsoft makes patent money on FAT (on every single device in the world that uses FAT SD cards and the like), ActiveSync (patent licenses), and their portion of MPEG-LA...

...there is remarkably little space left to hide the enormous sum they supposedly make from Android.