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How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Love the Tenure-track-faculty Life

blogs.scientificamerican.com

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Re: How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Love the Tenure-track-faculty Life

#51

Post by jrochkind1 »

dkrich wrote: post #11

Not to sound overly critical, but is it just me or does this come off as a somewhat selfish point of view? My father was a tenured professor and growing up I heard enough horror stories from his department to know that a career as a professor at a research university is no easy career. But at the same time, isn't a major part of your job instructing students? I understand the importance of grants, conducting research…

Selfish? I don't get it.

Wait... you're assuming the alternative to the practice suggested in the OP is spending a lot of time focusing on instruction? (Of _undergrads_?)

I think you are misunderstanding the 'typical' approach to tenure-track career. I can assure you that the majority of people doing the "80 hour" work weeks are not focusing on teaching.

While the OP didn't mention really mention teaching, I would honestly assume the the author spends as much or more time on instruction/teaching, and does as good or better by her students, than the 'typical' workaholic junior tenure track faculty. The workaholics are not spending spending 80 hours a week because they're spending a lot of time on teaching, I assure you.

Re: How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Love the Tenure-track-faculty Life

#52

Post by scott_s »

mdwelsh wrote: post #13
sidww2 wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

By good, do you mean faculty positions elsewhere or is it hard in general to even get say senior jobs in the industry after being denied tenure?

People denied tenure in CS at Harvard have gotten senior (tenured) jobs elsewhere, but not in my opinion at places anywhere near as good.

You and I may have different views of what "anywhere near as good" means, so it's hard for me to accept your judgement at face value.

Re: How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Love the Tenure-track-faculty Life

#53

Post by mathattack »

jforman wrote: post #3

This strategy would quickly lose its merit outside of Harvard. Failing to gain tenure at Harvard is the expected outcome, so a) the sense of rejection is less, and b) your remaining job prospects are good because this is generally recognized (and it's Harvard). Asking somebody at a high-tenure-rate, second-tier school to treat their tenure track position as an extended post-doc is essentially asking them to have a fa…

It would seem like anyone worth their salt in computer science could get a corporate job after 7 years at any school, especially Harvard. It seems like the concept of having a failed career is much less than if the Phd was in Philosophy.

Re: How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Love the Tenure-track-faculty Life

#54

Post by mathattack »

I like the idea. When you free yourself from undue external pressure creativity comes out. This doesn't work for everyone. You have to be very prescient to avoid all advice. Being smart and in computer science allows one great backup plans. (Tell the 7th year English professor not to worry)

Re: How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Love the Tenure-track-faculty Life

#55

Post by ISL »

mdwelsh wrote: post #13
sidww2 wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

By good, do you mean faculty positions elsewhere or is it hard in general to even get say senior jobs in the industry after being denied tenure?

People denied tenure in CS at Harvard have gotten senior (tenured) jobs elsewhere, but not in my opinion at places anywhere near as good.

A difference is that people denied tenure at Harvard have gotten senior (tenured) jobs elsewhere.

My subjective sense is that there are only a few schools where denial of tenure isn't the end of the line for research professorial dreams.

OP's notion of the 7-year postdoc is an interesting one.

Re: How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Love the Tenure-track-faculty Life

#56

Post by lettergram »

I highly recommend reading The Talent Code by Daniel Coyle. The essence of the book as well as this article are interesting in that the more relaxed you are the higher your productivity and interestingly enough you can only learn/do so much in a day. The point being, likely not pursuing the tenure track made her more productive and allowed her to form better relationships, making her one of the better junior faculty (or at least one of the more pleasant).

Re: How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Love the Tenure-track-faculty Life

#58

Post by ams6110 »

mathattack wrote: post #53
jforman wrote: post #3

This strategy would quickly lose its merit outside of Harvard. Failing to gain tenure at Harvard is the expected outcome, so a) the sense of rejection is less, and b) your remaining job prospects are good because this is generally recognized (and it's Harvard). Asking somebody at a high-tenure-rate, second-tier school to treat their tenure track position as an extended post-doc is essentially asking them to have a fa…

It would seem like anyone worth their salt in computer science could get a corporate job after 7 years at any school, especially Harvard. It seems like the concept of having a failed career is much less than if the Phd was in Philosophy.

Transitioning to a corporate job after 7 years in academia would be a culture shock for most people, to say the least.

Re: How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Love the Tenure-track-faculty Life

#59

Post by fsck--off »

seanmcdirmid wrote: post #40
mdwelsh wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This isn't true in computer science at Harvard - I speak from experience, having gone through the tenure process there myself. Being denied tenure in CS at Harvard is about as bad as being denied tenure anywhere else; people don't usually end up in very good jobs afterwards. In my 8 years at Harvard, we awarded tenure to 5 junior faculty, and denied tenure to two.

How does Harvard CS even work in the shadow of MIT and its own very strong liberal arts program? I mean, it is a good department, definitely a top 20.

This isn't really a problem because Harvard and MIT allow students to cross-register (for up to half of your credits, the same as if you transferred from another school, although I'm not sure if the rules have changed in recent years).

Re: How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Love the Tenure-track-faculty Life

#60

Post by spartango »

dnautics wrote: post #31
spartango wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's scary is that this represents a fairly luxurious set of pain-points relative to the ones I've seen junior faculty members in the biological sciences exposed to at Harvard. The conveniences and cultural differences of the CS community are a stark contrast to academic biology. Considering the author's observations: First, the opt-out options are often fewer and further between; making the jump between basic scie…

>Then, as a biologist, it can be incredibly difficult to restrict your working hours, as experimental (e.g. cell culture) work can operate with delays or intervals. Stepping out at the wrong time means your cells die. That's where personnel management comes in. I've got an undergrad intern at the moment, who has only a modest amount of lab research experience. In a month and a half, I've taught him molecular biology…

You're absolutely right, it is possible and even important to structure your experiments in such a way that they don't dominate your life. It's something that I've learned to do pretty effectively (and my chosen discipline makes it easier).

I think there are certainly organizational things that can be done to facilitate more reasonable working hours, and I've seen this done well in industrial settings. From pipelined experiments to working with automation, technicians, and teammates.

With all that said, it's not easy, especially as a junior faculty member with limited resources. Building a sane lab environment is 100% worth it IMO, but it is challenging and comes with a few perceived compromises.

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