Live data from Hacker News

How to Decide if a New Hire Will Be a Team Player in the Interview

linkedin.com

51–57 of 57 posts

Re: How to Decide if a New Hire Will Be a Team Player in the Interview

#51
post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's the issue. A job explicitly labeled "contract to hire" is never done right. No good developer is going to do contract to hire at 1/52 of the salary, because they already either make an equivalent salary or far more as a contractor. The company isn't going to pay an actual contracting rate, because they are either cheap or can't afford it. Contract to hire is almost exclusively done in places where it's hard fo…

> A job explicitly labeled "contract to hire" is never done right i don't understand how you and the other guy can make these blanket black and white statements like this. have you guys ever had to hire people based on advertised solicitation only? contract to hire is mainly done in situations where a new employee can not be vouched for by an existing one, or a large number of new employees must be brought on at once…

I'm not sure what I said contradicts what you're saying. I've been involved with hiring over 100 people in Boston, San Francisco and NYC. Everyone does not really know everyone but that's a different story. Contract to hire is very popular in the part of the Midwest where I'm originally from because of no particular reason other than the hiring firm can and the person being hired doesn't have many options. At one place I worked in Boston everyone was theoretically "contract to hire" but it was atypical as the rate paid was so high that nobody ever took the full time job.

Re: How to Decide if a New Hire Will Be a Team Player in the Interview

#52
post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> A job explicitly labeled "contract to hire" is never done right i don't understand how you and the other guy can make these blanket black and white statements like this. have you guys ever had to hire people based on advertised solicitation only? contract to hire is mainly done in situations where a new employee can not be vouched for by an existing one, or a large number of new employees must be brought on at once…

I'm not sure what I said contradicts what you're saying. I've been involved with hiring over 100 people in Boston, San Francisco and NYC. Everyone does not really know everyone but that's a different story. Contract to hire is very popular in the part of the Midwest where I'm originally from because of no particular reason other than the hiring firm can and the person being hired doesn't have many options. At one pla…

i see you deleted your anecdote, which to me basically exemplifies my theory that the opposing opinion on this matter is simply just a way of validating ego.

"I would never do that, so therefore, no other good developer would either. Ever."

Re: How to Decide if a New Hire Will Be a Team Player in the Interview

#53
post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure what I said contradicts what you're saying. I've been involved with hiring over 100 people in Boston, San Francisco and NYC. Everyone does not really know everyone but that's a different story. Contract to hire is very popular in the part of the Midwest where I'm originally from because of no particular reason other than the hiring firm can and the person being hired doesn't have many options. At one pla…

i see you deleted your anecdote, which to me basically exemplifies my theory that the opposing opinion on this matter is simply just a way of validating ego. "I would never do that, so therefore, no other good developer would either. Ever."

I deleted my anecdote because I didn't feel it was appropriate to leave details up about my friend's company as he's still my friend and they still need to fill the position.

I guess I don't get what you're saying. Who does contract to hire where it's good a good deal for someone other than the employer?

Re: How to Decide if a New Hire Will Be a Team Player in the Interview

#54
post #46
post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Done right, contract-to-hire seems like a great solution to me. It's actually a chance for the employer and employee to get to know each other and make sure their mutual expectations match. Assuming the position were to be salaried at $104k, a sensible agreement might be: - The employee is hired temporarily for a period of one to three months. - Their wage is paid weekly, at a rate of $2k per week (i.e. 1/52 of their…

That's the issue. A job explicitly labeled "contract to hire" is never done right. No good developer is going to do contract to hire at 1/52 of the salary, because they already either make an equivalent salary or far more as a contractor. The company isn't going to pay an actual contracting rate, because they are either cheap or can't afford it. Contract to hire is almost exclusively done in places where it's hard fo…

[deleted]

Re: How to Decide if a New Hire Will Be a Team Player in the Interview

#55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If you really want to know if a (otherwise qualified) developer will fit into your team you should do contract-to-hire The difficulty here is that no one who is even mediocre would ever do a "contract to hire". If they are good they have options and there just isn't any upside to doing a contract for hire when you can take another full time job. Contract for hire is a big red flag!

Not necessarily true, automattic (makers of wordpress) does this[1] [1] http://automattic.com/work-with-us/

[deleted]

Re: How to Decide if a New Hire Will Be a Team Player in the Interview

#56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think we're going to have to disagree here. > have you ever worked with people who are used to getting paid $100+/hr? i.e. top people? it doesn't sound like it. I saw this and wondered if you were trolling. It's certainly a rude and undeserved comment, but I'll be charitable and bite:) My main point is that "good" developers, always have options. My assumptions: 1) the developer wants full time work, otherwise they…

what i'm saying is my actual real life experience contradicts pretty much everything you're stating. your position is falsifiable by a single example. it's not reality. it's just your opinion. you're saying "that's impossible", when it clearly is NOT impossible.

Ok, I'll try to restate my opinion as clearly as I can as it looks like we're talking past each other:)

A developer has a job, they are looking for a new job. They have a full time offer and a contract for hire offer. All other things being equal.....

Why would the developer ever consider taking a contract for hire offer when they have other alternatives?

This just seems like they are taking all the risk here. If they take a full time offer and find out the culture isn't a good fit then they can leave, just like in contract for hire.

What is the upside to the developer here over taking a full time position?

Re: How to Decide if a New Hire Will Be a Team Player in the Interview

#57
In 1683, Prince Eugene of Savoy applied to Louis XIV for a commission in the French army. Louis XIV turned him down flat; whether as not a team player or just as ugly, unprepossessing, etc. I don't know. Prince Eugene turned to Vienna, and spend the beginning of the 1700s winning campaigns and battles against the French marshals, often in cooperation with John Churchill, eventually Duke of Marlborough.

Wikipedia has the dates etc.

Post reply on HN