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Why Does Talking About Creepers And Harassment Make People So Angry?

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Re: Why Does Talking About Creepers And Harassment Make People So Angry?

#51

Post by beachstartup »

PavlovsCat wrote: post #29
beachstartup wrote: post #14

"creepy" is just a code word for "unattractive" or "awkward" i've been called hot, sexy, and creepy in the same hour span on a night out. speaking up in the conversation at the wrong time, or just having the wrong look on your face can be "creepy". staring off into space while thinking about code? watch out, you could be creeping someone out. overhear something and decide to but in with a "hey i think i know what you…

"creepy" is just a code word for "unattractive" or "awkward" In this context, it simply means being pushy and mumbling (or screaming) about sex and/or violence all the time. E.g. http://fatuglyorslutty.com/ i've been called hot, sexy, and creepy in the same hour span on a night out. Yes, and people have called making a lot of money "killing it" before, too, but that doesn't suddenly make murder okay. How's that for a…

> Yes, and people have called making a lot of money "killing it" before, too, but that doesn't suddenly make murder okay. How's that for a simple exercise in logic.

i can't even follow your logic here.

Re: Why Does Talking About Creepers And Harassment Make People So Angry?

#52

Post by Dylan16807 »

parennoob wrote: post #48
Dylan16807 wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not that people that disagree are as a class nutters. It's that nutters are disproportionately attracted to certain types of posts. And yes it is a measured response, there are almost always a lot of annoying nonsensical shouters whenever the topic comes up.

"It's that nutters are disproportionately attracted to certain types of posts. And yes it is a measured response, there are almost always a lot of annoying nonsensical shouters whenever the topic comes up" This is what I disagree with. I don't think posts on sexism attract significantly more "nonsensical shouters" than posts on, say immigration, or abortion or any other topic. I don't have direct data on this, but ne…

Immigration and abortion also attract a lot of nutters. You realize you picked some of the most emotionally charged and stagnated arguments in the world, right?

Re: Why Does Talking About Creepers And Harassment Make People So Angry?

#53

Post by marvin »

michaelochurch wrote: post #25

Human nature is often shitty and here's the status ranking that tends to emerge, except in mature/stable monogamous couplings: High-status men > High-status women >>> Low-status women >>> Low-status men Few people will put it that nakedly, but let's get it out there. I'm not defending this. I hate that it's that way. It's unfair to women (who have a ceiling placed above them) and unfair to low-status men (who are tre…

Well formulated.

Re: Why Does Talking About Creepers And Harassment Make People So Angry?

#54

Post by Fomite »

cbrauchli wrote: post #4
altero wrote: post #2

> Why Does Talking About Creepers And Harassment Make People So Angry? Because it is usually followed by demands and hate. "I am woman, you are sexist because you are a man, now gimme your money".

Why wouldn't the same happen when we talk about other forms of prejudice, e.g., racism?

The same does often happen when you talk about any form of racism beyond really appalling, very clear acts.

Re: Why Does Talking About Creepers And Harassment Make People So Angry?

#55

Post by hackinthebochs »

chrisro wrote: post #41
marvin wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd also like to add that the word "creeper" should be kept out of these discussions. It seems obvious that sexism is very common in United States computer culture. But the word "creepy", when used to describe an undesirable man, is every bit as derogatory as "fattie" or "slut" when applied to a woman. It's the kind of word that is used for character assasination. As you say, it doesn't go well when you imply that ev…

>The proper way to handle this issue is to just be direct when someone is behaving inappropriately and not use ambiguous language It is not the responsibility of women to educate when they feel uncomfortable or fear for their safety.

Responsibility is the wrong word here. If women want certain behaviors to stop, it is logical for them to explain exactly what they don't like. Expecting already awkward men to read minds is self-defeating.

Re: Why Does Talking About Creepers And Harassment Make People So Angry?

#56

Post by b1daly »

PavlovsCat wrote: post #47
theorique wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, and people have called making a lot of money "killing it" before, too, but that doesn't suddenly make murder okay. How's that for a simple exercise in logic. That doesn't really follow. What he meant was that some people experienced him as hot, some experienced him as sexy, and some experienced him as creepy. In other words, he was not objectively any one of those things - different people had different expectat…

It's still talking about himself, not the stuff the blog post is about. It's still the same responding to a discussion about murder that they know people who wouldn't hurt a fly, but are regularly mistaken for hardened criminals because they have violent tattoos, or whatever. I mean, it's a nice story, but it's at best random, at worst being dense. If anyone wants to argue the behaviour the post is actually referring…

Your anecdote illustrates where the anger and frustration around the topic comes from. What you describe is a form of harassment, possibly assault in contexts. I hear women use the term creepy not to describe behavior like that, usually it's about unwanted attention of a sexual nature by a low status or unattractive male.

I might not be tuned in to exactly how the phrase"creeper" is used, but I think it's used to turn the adjective to a noun. Which is even more upsetting and mean, as you assigning a whole, derogatory identity to someone based on actions which are almost always a small percentage of all their actions.

To not see this is being willfully obtuse.

Re: Why Does Talking About Creepers And Harassment Make People So Angry?

#57

Post by chrisro »

hackinthebochs wrote: post #55
chrisro wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>The proper way to handle this issue is to just be direct when someone is behaving inappropriately and not use ambiguous language It is not the responsibility of women to educate when they feel uncomfortable or fear for their safety.

Responsibility is the wrong word here. If women want certain behaviors to stop, it is logical for them to explain exactly what they don't like. Expecting already awkward men to read minds is self-defeating.

It is not logical for a woman (or anyone really) to remain in a situation that makes her uncomfortable and especially not logical to remain in a situation where she fears for her safety. Responsibility was the correct word--the onus on creepers to stop being creepers, not the women who are being creeped on or harassed to explain why that behavior is inappropriate.

Also, awkward isn't synonymous with creepy. See rosser's reply elsewhere in this thread for a better explanation of creepy: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5975094

Re: Why Does Talking About Creepers And Harassment Make People So Angry?

#58

Post by hackinthebochs »

chrisro wrote: post #57
hackinthebochs wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Responsibility is the wrong word here. If women want certain behaviors to stop, it is logical for them to explain exactly what they don't like. Expecting already awkward men to read minds is self-defeating.

It is not logical for a woman (or anyone really) to remain in a situation that makes her uncomfortable and especially not logical to remain in a situation where she fears for her safety. Responsibility was the correct word--the onus on creepers to stop being creepers, not the women who are being creeped on or harassed to explain why that behavior is inappropriate. Also, awkward isn't synonymous with creepy. See rosse…

Of course there are many situations where simply removing yourself isn't the end of the story--coworkers, friends of friends, etc. One should be encouraged to speak up in situations where they are made to feel uncomfortable, especially considering that "creepy" itself is a subjective experience. But its not that they have a responsibility to, it's simply an effective way to communicate your wishes to another person. Expecting someone who is being creepy to just know that they're being creepy seems almost oxymoronic.

Re: Why Does Talking About Creepers And Harassment Make People So Angry?

#59

Post by chrisro »

hackinthebochs wrote: post #58
chrisro wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is not logical for a woman (or anyone really) to remain in a situation that makes her uncomfortable and especially not logical to remain in a situation where she fears for her safety. Responsibility was the correct word--the onus on creepers to stop being creepers, not the women who are being creeped on or harassed to explain why that behavior is inappropriate. Also, awkward isn't synonymous with creepy. See rosse…

Of course there are many situations where simply removing yourself isn't the end of the story--coworkers, friends of friends, etc. One should be encouraged to speak up in situations where they are made to feel uncomfortable, especially considering that "creepy" itself is a subjective experience. But its not that they have a responsibility to, it's simply an effective way to communicate your wishes to another person.…

Women/people certainly CAN choose to educate. Your presumption that she SHOULD or, rather, "The proper way to handle this issue is..." is what I took issue with. There is no "proper way to handle this issue" except the way that makes the violated feel safer. If that means she moves away from the perpetrator, then that is proper way. If it means opening a dialogue about improper behavior, then that is the proper way too. Ultimately, it comes down to the woman/person in question.
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