Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

We were wrong

kickstarter.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

51–60 of 546 posts

Re: We were wrong

#51

Post by OvidNaso »

The linked blog post has an update that is really interesting:

[UPDATE: In the opening paragraph of this beast I mentioned a Kickstarter campaign that I am passionate about, that represents everything I like about Kickstarter. But for some reason I am getting bombarded with e-mails from people that think that project and “Above The Game” are connected. And now people are pulling funding for the project I’m pumped for. Because of that, I’ve removed any mention of them by name.]

Makes you question if any thought was put into the situation by many of the people who are outraged.

Re: We were wrong

#52

Post by mwfunk »

freehunter wrote: post #34
vacri wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure where you get that from. Puritans have never been big on the rights of women.

Puritans in 1600, no. Puritan America in the 2000's, sex is a very taboo subject, especially when it comes to women.

This was clearly, obviously, blatantly not in response to anyones hangups about sex in general. Not wanting to be associated with creepy, rapey stuff written by and for creepy, rapey people is hardly Puritanical, it's more like being a human being.

Re: We were wrong

#53

Post by emiljbs »

DannoHung wrote: post #24

Look at all these HNers defending sexual assault.

Oh, wow, really?

So just because some people are asking "Hey, is there something intrinsically wrong with these guides or what?" they're defending sexual assault.

Re: We were wrong

#54

Post by citricsquid »

angersock wrote: post #45
ebiester wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The excerpted quotes of advice were pretty damn rapey. The problem is that many (every one I've seen) of these "seduction" manuals are written in a way that is hostile toward women.

Would you mind listing some of the quotes you found "rapey"?

The blog post linked from the kickstarter blog post includes lots of examples of what most people would consider to be "rapey"

    “Decide that you’re going to sit in a position where you can rub 
    her leg and back. Physically pick her up and sit her on your lap. 
    Don’t ask for permission. Be dominant. Force her to rebuff your 
    advances.”
http://caseymalone.com/post/53339539674/this-is-not-fucking-...

Re: We were wrong

#55

Post by angersock »

pathy wrote: post #42

For the sake of completion: http://pastebin.com/zwHYzCZe This is a statement on the matter by the author, linked in the original Reddit thread.

Relevant quote from your link:

"The thing that the commenters on social media are leaving out is that the advice was taken from a section in the guide offering advice on what to do AFTER a man has met a cute girl, gotten her phone number, gone on dates, spent time getting to know her, and now are alone behind closed doors fooling around. If "Don't wait for signs, make the first move" promotes sexual assault, then "Kiss the Girl" from The Little Mermaid was a song about rape."

Re: We were wrong

#56

Post by WA »

hacker789 wrote: post #28

Women are sensitive, fragile, inferior creatures who require constant, vigilant protection from honorable men. If it becomes necessary to take a few quotes out of context in our noble quest to protect the fairer sex, so be it. Kudos to Kickstarter for adhering to feminist principles. > The thing that the commenters on social media are leaving out is that the advice was taken from a section in the guide offering advic…

Is this a joke? Inferior? Women like to have sex just like men do. But many women, especially in their early 20s, are often reluctant to take the first step. So a man needs to take action. That's what the whole fuss is about.

Re: We were wrong

#57

Post by pseut »

roc wrote: post #26
maximilianburke wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When the guide is written like a rape manual, yes, yes it is. It features quotes like: "Pull out your cock and put her hand on it. Remember, she is letting you do this because you have established yourself as a LEADER. Don't ask for permission, GRAB HER HAND, and put it right on your dick." (from: http://www.reddit.com/r/seduction/comments/1dvnem/above_the_... ) The whole thing is disgusting, degrading, and has no pl…

At the same time... if this same content was written as fiction, with the viewpoint character/hero accomplishing his goals through these same methods and relaying that same philosophy through dialogue or internal monologue, would it be (as) problematic?

You're asking whether it would be as problematic if it were a different book? I guess it depends. It's not like fiction/nonfiction is a switch that you can toggle without making other substantive changes.

Re: We were wrong

#58

Post by azar1 »

iandanforth wrote: post #30

I don't respect this. I acknowledge that as it is their playground they can make this kind of judgement call, however I have always believed that freedom of speech also protects the freedom to hate and be a terrible person. There are countless texts, movies, and other 'creative works' which both condone and encourage violence against women, mass murder, torture, and other things I find abhorrent, but I don't get to b…

I see no denial of the author's freedom of speech here. The author is free to host and fund their misogynist drivel on their own server, and Kickstarter doesn't seem to be denying that. Kickstarter has a business to run, and has some semblance of ethics, so it has chosen to refuse to offer its service to this content.

Re: We were wrong

#59

Post by tomjen3 »

gilrain wrote: post #15

I won't touch the issue of whether the action was right or wrong here on Hacker News, but I think everyone has to admit that this is a brilliant example of an apology done well. They do not equivocate (the "sorry you were offended" apology) and they take direct action to fix what their users felt was wrong (new policy made) as well as somewhat atone for the original offense (donation to RAINN). It's also written simp…

I don't see it as brilliant, I see it as a giant foot-in-mouth situation (which may be colored by the fact that I don't have a problem with seduction guides in general, and haven't seen the material in question) - until now Kickstarter has been neutral on legal content so if I see something I don't like, well too bad, but now there is a precedent for removing something because somebody finds it offensive, but others like it; so now they either have to issue an apology and retract the next offensive thing (say a t-shirt commemorating the ban on assault weapons) or lose their stance as neutral.

If they had instead issued a non-apology-apology they would have been of the hock.

Re: We were wrong

#60

Post by throwit1979 »

vacri wrote: post #18
Tichy wrote: post #3

I guess to understand this one has to consider that Kickstarter is based in puritan America?

I'm not sure where you get that from. Puritans have never been big on the rights of women.

The rights of women? Women have a right to not have a book published? Really?

I could make the parallel argument for The Anarchist's Cookbook, and the difference between publication and action, but what's the point? Gender politics has been extraordinarily effective at driving reason out of such discussions.

Post reply on HN