If companies are people according to the law, then wouldn't individuals be afforded the same protection, in some sort of legal reciprocity juju?
NSA Boss Asks Congress For Blanket Immunity For Companies That Help NSA Spy
51–60 of 97 posts
Re: NSA Boss Asks Congress For Blanket Immunity For Companies That Help NSA Spy
#52Earlier quoted context omitted.
It might be an end-run around the 4th amendment if the government was ordering companies to do mass surveillance (though we can argue about whether the 4th amendment has anything to do with surveillance at all). But the government doesn't need to do that. The companies already do all the surveillance, and people happily hand over to those companies their data. Is it an end-run around the 4th amendment for the governm…
> Even in 1790 the government could compel companies to hand over all the information they had about a target of investigation. I don't think they ever could compel companies by specifying the target as every customer on the off-chance that some where foreigners.
They don't need to do that.
They just need to say "retain all data for XX years". Retention requirements are by no means a novel legislative requirement, you see them everywhere.
Now that PhoneCo. is holding all the data instead of the NSA, the NSA can then just ask the phone company to provide data on an as-needed basis using standard warrants/subpoenas using some variant of the Prism automated FISA/NSL-compliance system.
Re: NSA Boss Asks Congress For Blanket Immunity For Companies That Help NSA Spy
#53Earlier quoted context omitted.
It might be an end-run around the 4th amendment if the government was ordering companies to do mass surveillance (though we can argue about whether the 4th amendment has anything to do with surveillance at all). But the government doesn't need to do that. The companies already do all the surveillance, and people happily hand over to those companies their data. Is it an end-run around the 4th amendment for the governm…
It's not like the subpoena is a new legal instrument True, but there isn't an 18th century analogue to a company that has all of your personal correspondence.
There were newspapers, which people would post open letters in. I seem to remember a Reddit post about some gentleman calling another one a "scoundrel" and a "coward" and challenging him to a duel.
Later (in the 19th century), there was Western Union...
Re: NSA Boss Asks Congress For Blanket Immunity For Companies That Help NSA Spy
#54The only thing the NSA is accomplishing right now are encouraging innovations in privacy to help people avoid detection. And, gosh, I wonder who will be the first to seize onto that? Mmm, criminals perhaps?
Innovations like Tor, BitCoin, PGP, and TLS?
Re: NSA Boss Asks Congress For Blanket Immunity For Companies That Help NSA Spy
#55Earlier quoted context omitted.
It might be an end-run around the 4th amendment if the government was ordering companies to do mass surveillance (though we can argue about whether the 4th amendment has anything to do with surveillance at all). But the government doesn't need to do that. The companies already do all the surveillance, and people happily hand over to those companies their data. Is it an end-run around the 4th amendment for the governm…
It doesn't matter if people are happily "handing over their data" - the government still needs a warrant to request the information. In United States v. Warshak it was ruled that a person has a reasonable expectation of privacy in his/her emails and that the government violated Warshak's Fourth Amendment rights by compelling his internet service provider to turn over his emails without first obtaining a warrant.
That's very true, but as long as the company is doing the 'surveilllance' and not the government, the warrant can be done on a just-in-time basis. This essentially all that Prism is, after all.
Re: NSA Boss Asks Congress For Blanket Immunity For Companies That Help NSA Spy
#56This is a brilliant end-run around the fourth amendment. Sure, the government isn't allowed to do mass warrantless surveillance, but they can order companies to do it illegally and then pardon them.
"This is an interesting approach to the Fourth Amendment: pressure most everyone to agree, in advance, to waive their rights under it."
https://www.google.com/search?q=This+is+an+interesting+appro....
Re: NSA Boss Asks Congress For Blanket Immunity For Companies That Help NSA Spy
#57Re: NSA Boss Asks Congress For Blanket Immunity For Companies That Help NSA Spy
#58Earlier quoted context omitted.
Wrong, if they are tapping at the wires they only see that your using gmail, not the content of your email or who you are speaking to (Unless you turn off ssl for some strange reason).
How likely is it that these companies can be compelled to turn over their SSL private keys via FISA court?
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Re: NSA Boss Asks Congress For Blanket Immunity For Companies That Help NSA Spy
#59Re: NSA Boss Asks Congress For Blanket Immunity For Companies That Help NSA Spy
#60Earlier quoted context omitted.
Really? Probably never.
Really. We need to send him to jail, otherwise he'll keep breaking the law. Edit: While he's in jail, maybe he could pick up a copy of the Constitution. :)
Let's wait until any of this has been definitively, objectively declared illegal first.
[edit] His Wikipedia page says he's expected to retire next year. I have a sneaking suspicion nothing touches him and he's left alone to ride off into the sunset.
[edit edit] Actually... lying to the House is kind of illegal isn't it....