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Petition to Pardon Edward Snowden

petitions.whitehouse.gov

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Re: Petition to Pardon Edward Snowden

#51

Post by madaxe »

billsix wrote: post #41
dylangs1030 wrote: post #31

I don't mean to be cynical, but a mere petition is just the tip of the iceberg. This is a government agency that is commiting widespread breach of privacy. A petition will not be respected. It's an OK start, but it will be essentially meaningless. If you want results, riot in the streets. Civil disobeience. Historical actions and movements that achieve some measure of peace. The ease of an action corresponds to what…

> If you want results, riot in the streets. Civil disobeience. How do you define "to riot", and "civil disobedience". They sound mutually exclusive to me.

A riot where you obey the authorities isn't much of a riot.

Re: Petition to Pardon Edward Snowden

#52

Post by samstave »

jfoutz wrote: post #34
dylangs1030 wrote: post #31

I don't mean to be cynical, but a mere petition is just the tip of the iceberg. This is a government agency that is commiting widespread breach of privacy. A petition will not be respected. It's an OK start, but it will be essentially meaningless. If you want results, riot in the streets. Civil disobeience. Historical actions and movements that achieve some measure of peace. The ease of an action corresponds to what…

Just to be clear, which law was it that you think they broke? I'd happily agree what the NSA did was just as wrong as, say, making it to easy to get mortgages. But the law and morality don't always agree.

Taxation without representation.

Personally, I think that anyone against this should show a civil disobedience by refusing to pay taxes.

Re: Petition to Pardon Edward Snowden

#54

Post by mtgx »

timr wrote: post #42
WildUtah wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause , supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized."

PRISM, as described, is a warrant-based program. But you're right...we shouldn't let facts get in the way of a proper angry mob.

A warrant that says "allow us to get all the data on everyone in the country, with no specific targets".

That's not much of a warrant that respects the 4th amendment.

Re: Petition to Pardon Edward Snowden

#55

Post by snitko »

dylangs1030 wrote: post #31

I don't mean to be cynical, but a mere petition is just the tip of the iceberg. This is a government agency that is commiting widespread breach of privacy. A petition will not be respected. It's an OK start, but it will be essentially meaningless. If you want results, riot in the streets. Civil disobeience. Historical actions and movements that achieve some measure of peace. The ease of an action corresponds to what…

Or use Bitcoin exclusively instead of the USD.

Re: Petition to Pardon Edward Snowden

#56

Post by angusangus »

billsix wrote: post #41
dylangs1030 wrote: post #31

I don't mean to be cynical, but a mere petition is just the tip of the iceberg. This is a government agency that is commiting widespread breach of privacy. A petition will not be respected. It's an OK start, but it will be essentially meaningless. If you want results, riot in the streets. Civil disobeience. Historical actions and movements that achieve some measure of peace. The ease of an action corresponds to what…

> If you want results, riot in the streets. Civil disobeience. How do you define "to riot", and "civil disobedience". They sound mutually exclusive to me.

The 'civil' in 'civil disobedience' refers to disobeying the civil government, not disobeying politely.

Re: Petition to Pardon Edward Snowden

#57

Post by csomar »

dylangs1030 wrote: post #31

I don't mean to be cynical, but a mere petition is just the tip of the iceberg. This is a government agency that is commiting widespread breach of privacy. A petition will not be respected. It's an OK start, but it will be essentially meaningless. If you want results, riot in the streets. Civil disobeience. Historical actions and movements that achieve some measure of peace. The ease of an action corresponds to what…

If you want results, riot in the streets. Civil disobeience. Historical actions and movements that achieve some measure of peace.

Do you have any backups for that? I mean, any historical proof that rioting will make change?

You know, Tunisia went on a relatively peaceful revolution and now we have less freedom and more problems/unemployment. It's even worse for countries where the revolution is violent.

Having lived that experience, I'll be against rioting/civil disobedience any time and for any cause.

Want to make change? Educate people. nothing else.

Re: Petition to Pardon Edward Snowden

#58

Post by timr »

mtgx wrote: post #54
timr wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

PRISM, as described, is a warrant-based program. But you're right...we shouldn't let facts get in the way of a proper angry mob.

A warrant that says "allow us to get all the data on everyone in the country, with no specific targets". That's not much of a warrant that respects the 4th amendment.

"A warrant that says 'allow us to get all the data on everyone in the country, with no specific targets'."

So far, no evidence has been produced to support your assertion. In fact, all evidence in the leaked documents, official statements, etc. suggest the exact opposite: warrants are served that allow investigators to make specific searches, with oversight processes to try to reduce the number of US citizens' data included in the search.

In other words: prove your claim. Cite something other than a Reddit or HN comment from a tinfoil hat-fitting specialist.

Re: Petition to Pardon Edward Snowden

#59

Post by rdl »

A trial would be FAR better for everyone, at least if it happened openly (which it wouldn't)

Imagine the US Government having to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that this disclosure caused "exceptionally grave damage to US national security."

Re: Petition to Pardon Edward Snowden

#60

Post by baby »

csomar wrote: post #57
dylangs1030 wrote: post #31

I don't mean to be cynical, but a mere petition is just the tip of the iceberg. This is a government agency that is commiting widespread breach of privacy. A petition will not be respected. It's an OK start, but it will be essentially meaningless. If you want results, riot in the streets. Civil disobeience. Historical actions and movements that achieve some measure of peace. The ease of an action corresponds to what…

If you want results, riot in the streets. Civil disobeience. Historical actions and movements that achieve some measure of peace. Do you have any backups for that? I mean, any historical proof that rioting will make change? You know, Tunisia went on a relatively peaceful revolution and now we have less freedom and more problems/unemployment. It's even worse for countries where the revolution is violent. Having lived…

Revolution in France in 1789. We don't learn history in school for nothing I hope.
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