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NSA Chief Denies Domestic Spying Story (2012)

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Re: NSA Chief Denies Domestic Spying Story (2012)

#51

Post by lawnchair_larry »

brown9-2 wrote: post #5

Yes. Does the NSA routinely intercept American citizens’ emails? No. Does the NSA intercept Americans’ cell phone conversations? No. It's worth noting that "intercept" has a very specific meaning here, which the Congressman asking the question nor the reporter may not have realized. From http://theweek.com/article/index/245228/the-fbi-collects-all... A few definitions: to "collect" means to gather and store; to "anal…

If you know what the asker is asking, and you choose to interpret it differently to allow a more convenient answer, you're still a lying scumbag.

Re: NSA Chief Denies Domestic Spying Story (2012)

#53

Post by anigbrowl »

samstave wrote: post #24
snarfy wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Good catch, and it's important to understand when dealing with the law that every single word has a specific legal interpretation. This is where Clinton's famous "it depends on what your definition of 'is' is" came from. Re-read those questions and realize every single word in each sentence has a few pages of legalize that defines it. 'NSA', 'intercept', 'Americans', etc. Each word.

Where can one look up the actual legal definition for any given word? Have you heard the claim that your name in all caps is different than your name as you would write it? What is your opinion on that claim?

Where can one look up the actual legal definition for any given word?

Legislation often includes a section dedicated to definitions, commonly the first or last clause in a subsection of the US code. The holdings of court cases are also a significant source of information (but you have to distinguish between the holding, which is highly technical and narrow, and the dicta which is the long and often wide-ranging explanations of what the holding means that makes up the bulk of a judicial opinion, but which do not themselves have the force of law).

Have you heard the claim that your name in all caps is different than your name as you would write it? What is your opinion on that claim?

Complete garbage. I don't want to spend time or energy digging up all the references for you, but you can safely assume that anyone advancing that argument is a crazy trying to get out of paying income taxes (similar arguments include claims that having a certain kind of flag in the courtroom nullifies the legal force of a judicial decision and that your social security card is actually a certificate of slavery). Almost all such arguments originate from a set of fringe Christian conspiracy theories informally known as Dominionism in which (among other things) the federal government is considered an invention of Satan designed to trick Christians out of their rightful place as rulers over the Promised Land. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_Reconstructionism

Surprising or counter-intuititve legal arguments that lean heavily on 'natural law' often turn out to be grounded in religious belief as well.

Re: NSA Chief Denies Domestic Spying Story (2012)

#54

Post by brown9-2 »

navyrain wrote: post #17

It seems pretty clear that the NSA engages in bulk collection of databases which _might_ someday contain something interesting, and only considers it "interception" when they query their own DBs. These creative redefinitions of seemingly benign terms are at the root of the problem.

Isn't the specific terminology used very important to help differentiate exactly what type of surveillance is being done?

Language matters.

Re: NSA Chief Denies Domestic Spying Story (2012)

#55

Post by stevewillows »

anigbrowl wrote: post #53
samstave wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Where can one look up the actual legal definition for any given word? Have you heard the claim that your name in all caps is different than your name as you would write it? What is your opinion on that claim?

Where can one look up the actual legal definition for any given word? Legislation often includes a section dedicated to definitions, commonly the first or last clause in a subsection of the US code. The holdings of court cases are also a significant source of information (but you have to distinguish between the holding , which is highly technical and narrow, and the dicta which is the long and often wide-ranging expl…

This comment should be included (scrolling Star Wars style) before every Alex Jones video.

Re: NSA Chief Denies Domestic Spying Story (2012)

#56

Post by anigbrowl »

stevewillows wrote: post #55
anigbrowl wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Where can one look up the actual legal definition for any given word? Legislation often includes a section dedicated to definitions, commonly the first or last clause in a subsection of the US code. The holdings of court cases are also a significant source of information (but you have to distinguish between the holding , which is highly technical and narrow, and the dicta which is the long and often wide-ranging expl…

This comment should be included (scrolling Star Wars style) before every Alex Jones video.

Tee-hee! I hereby waive my copyright interest in the comment above and offer it up freely for this purpose if anyone feels like implementing it :-p

Re: NSA Chief Denies Domestic Spying Story (2012)

#58

Post by flyinRyan »

brown9-2 wrote: post #5

Yes. Does the NSA routinely intercept American citizens’ emails? No. Does the NSA intercept Americans’ cell phone conversations? No. It's worth noting that "intercept" has a very specific meaning here, which the Congressman asking the question nor the reporter may not have realized. From http://theweek.com/article/index/245228/the-fbi-collects-all... A few definitions: to "collect" means to gather and store; to "anal…

And, of course, the Chief could simply be lying. I'm sure all the effected companies are under gag orders so no one can call him on it.

Re: NSA Chief Denies Domestic Spying Story (2012)

#60

Post by contingencies »

brown9-2 wrote: post #5

Yes. Does the NSA routinely intercept American citizens’ emails? No. Does the NSA intercept Americans’ cell phone conversations? No. It's worth noting that "intercept" has a very specific meaning here, which the Congressman asking the question nor the reporter may not have realized. From http://theweek.com/article/index/245228/the-fbi-collects-all... A few definitions: to "collect" means to gather and store; to "anal…

Jacob Applebaum, of the Tor Project, showed this clip at his keynote at 29C3 last year and commented firstly that General Alexander was probably the most powerful man in the world, and on the basis of this same text, characterised the man as a fucking liar. Your interpretation explanation shows how the creature manages to get away with it.
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