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Why People Don't Like Nerds or Programmers (In School)

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51–60 of 148 posts

Re: Why People Don't Like Nerds or Programmers (In School)

#51

Many good points but missing one important observation. The cliques in school are hierarchical in nature. All groups may be exclusive toward other members but a band geek cannot make a jock's life miserable as a pastime. Members of each clique can torment those in the "lower castes" with virtually no social cost for those actions. For fun, to fit in, because daddy never hugged them, whatever. The Nerds and programmer…

Are you so certain it's hierarchical in nature? The difference between a jock and a band geek is that the jock will resort to violence to defend himself. I've pranked jocks before with groups of band geeks. It often leads to a scuffle. When band geeks are strong enough to fight back, they don't get bullied either. You don't torment people because of your own psychological past. Usually it's done out of irritation. Th…

> The meek, quiet type usually gets ignored in favor of the one who talks too much in class, not because people hate smart people, but because there are certain sorts who are really jerks about it and that irritates people.

Okay, wait a second. First off, I have a hard time picturing how someone can be that much of a "jerk" by answering a teacher's question. And secondly, are you honestly siding with a bully who beats on a kid for that kind of behavior? I mean, I understand that it can be irritating to hear from the same kid all the time, but frankly, the onus is on the bully to deal with this incredibly minor irritation in a less destructive way. Your implication that those being tormented are more at fault than the tormentors sickens me.

Re: Why People Don't Like Nerds or Programmers (In School)

#52
When you go online and want to learn programming, you run into the uncool assholes. The ones who’ll take "How to I make a web site that people can join" not as an admission of some guy who doesn’t care about the details but as a sign of weakness. I’ve seen responses to that question that range from "You obviously aren’t ready" to "It depends on how you want the site to scale." What bullshit!

No no no. That's me, but it's not because of anything to do with spotting "a sign of weakness".

Let me try to use a non-car analogy: Imagine I'm a carpenter (I'm not) and you come up to me and ask "how do I build a staircase?". The kinds of thoughts going through my head might be:

1) A staircase is obviously wood, cut to shape, then fixed together. It's also obviously quite a big thing. There's no need to answer with the low level "obvious" things like "you will need a large workshop", if you want to build a staircase you probably already have woodworking tools and experience and now want a bigger project, so an answer telling you basic outline steps would be insultingly patronising and unhelpful.

Also, an answer covering enough steps from scratch would take far too long for a forum post or discussion reply, so if I make the judgement that you don't have any of the experience and haven't considered it at all then you might get a dismissive "with a lot of work" reply.

(OK, maybe if we met informally and you asked, you might be just making conversation, but nobody goes to a technical forum and asks how to build a website just to make friends, do they, so that doesn't apply).

2) On the other hand, if you have spotted the obvious then you're asking one question but meaning another - maybe what kind of wood can I use to make it look nice, what building regs must it comply to, how can I reinforce it, what fireproofing treatments work well? What styles of bannister were popular in Victorian times?

There could be a lot of fun stuff, but again too many directions to go in all in one answer - this is where you get the "it depends what style you want" answer. It's not bullshit, it's better than that, it's skipping straight to acknowledgement, acceptance and directed at whichever obstacle or major design consideration comes to mind first.

So, "how do you build a website that people can join" leads me to think something like:

A website people can join means giving them a form to fill in, keeping their details, and providing a login prompt later. This is obvious to anyone who has used a couple of websites with signup forms.

So either you understand the steps of a site you can signup to and would have Googled until you found out more about those steps and asked a more specific question (What's HTML? What's a webhost? What happens to information in a form once I click submit? How can I keep it around?), or you're really asking for design and obstacle avoidance suggestions, e.g. scaling, security, server load, etc.

Hence the replies: You haven't Googled for the basics, that suggests you aren't ready for the amount of work involved, or you aren't really asking such a basic question so you don't get a basic answer.

Re: Why People Don't Like Nerds or Programmers (In School)

#53

When you go online and want to learn programming, you run into the uncool assholes. The ones who’ll take "How to I make a web site that people can join" not as an admission of some guy who doesn’t care about the details but as a sign of weakness. I’ve seen responses to that question that range from "You obviously aren’t ready" to "It depends on how you want the site to scale." What bullshit! No no no. That's me, but…

Or, in the case of someone who asked me that exact question recently, what they really want is for you to provide them with code for free.

Re: Why People Don't Like Nerds or Programmers (In School)

#54
post #3

This writer is really clueless as to what high school is like for those on the bottom of the heap -- I mean, really, no idea at all. For that reason, it's hard to listen to what else he has to say, no matter how relevant or (potentially) awesome. Obvious that he's never been the low end of the totem pole. It may be different now, but when I was in high school, geeks and nerds got shit on by every group -- the jocks,…

It definitely varies. I was not all that invested in programming at all, spending most of my time biking and playing music, but as a "smart kid" there was lots of ostracizing going around, just because I didn't play the main sport that everyone plays. What I take away from this is the importance of growing up - you get through those stages and move into a more nurturing community of people that support what you creat…

"Sir Michael Marmot, of University College London, and his intellectual successors have shown repeatedly that people at the bottom of social hierarchies experience much more stress in their daily lives than those at the top—and suffer the consequences in their health. Even quite young children are socially sensitive beings and aware of such things."

Growing up is important. But early stress does have long-term consequences.

Re: Why People Don't Like Nerds or Programmers (In School)

#55
post #3

This writer is really clueless as to what high school is like for those on the bottom of the heap -- I mean, really, no idea at all. For that reason, it's hard to listen to what else he has to say, no matter how relevant or (potentially) awesome. Obvious that he's never been the low end of the totem pole. It may be different now, but when I was in high school, geeks and nerds got shit on by every group -- the jocks,…

It definitely varies. I was not all that invested in programming at all, spending most of my time biking and playing music, but as a "smart kid" there was lots of ostracizing going around, just because I didn't play the main sport that everyone plays. What I take away from this is the importance of growing up - you get through those stages and move into a more nurturing community of people that support what you creat…

[deleted]

Re: Why People Don't Like Nerds or Programmers (In School)

#56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> After the opening section I think the rant goes completely off the deep end with a rapid succession of wrong-headed generalizations. Hang on - there was a part without wrong-headed generalizations? The way I read it, the first two sentences tripped my generalization alarm. The guy constantly extrapolates from his tiny sample and says that the whole world is that way.

This is the world that I know. I write about it. Very often I find that I'm wrong about something, and when I do I write about that as well. Are you saying that a young, bright 18-year-old shouldn't write at all because he knows that most of what he says is wrong? Because that sounds kind of stupid. I'd rather more people my age write and be entirely wrong and start talking back and forth amongst one another, so they…

> This is the world that I know. I write about it.

Except you didn't limit yourself to that. You wrote about the world that everyone experiences, and essentially told a bunch of other people that they are wrong about their own experiences.

> Are you saying that a young, bright 18-year-old shouldn't write at all because he knows that most of what he says is wrong?

I'm saying that anyone, regardless of age or intelligence, should try to avoid generalizing from their almost certainly narrow experience.

Also, the tone of your comment has certain elements of the martyr mentality that you have criticized in your essay and in these comments.

Re: Why People Don't Like Nerds or Programmers (In School)

#57
post #3

This writer is really clueless as to what high school is like for those on the bottom of the heap -- I mean, really, no idea at all. For that reason, it's hard to listen to what else he has to say, no matter how relevant or (potentially) awesome. Obvious that he's never been the low end of the totem pole. It may be different now, but when I was in high school, geeks and nerds got shit on by every group -- the jocks,…

I thought that was the point of the essay. We're all old (and hopefully mature enough) now to accept that maybe it wasn't completely the jock's (or whomever's) fault that the nerds were unpopular.

An outside perspective is almost always useful in figuring things out. I found this essay hit home. I was definitely in the nerd group, and if I had read this in high school, it would've helped.

Re: Why People Don't Like Nerds or Programmers (In School)

#58

There's something ironic about a post on nerds being deliberately exclusionary which redirects IE browsers to a Safari download link.

This seems like exactly the sort of response this essay doesn't like. It immediately points out flaws without regard to the message as a whole.

Finding flaws is valuable if you're doing a startup or figuring out a good design, but if you're in any sort of social situation, it will instantly turn people off to you 100%.

Re: Why People Don't Like Nerds or Programmers (In School)

#60
Most (not all) of the responses here seem to absolutely confirm this essay's main points.

The posters here generally are taking some kind of offense to this, and feel the need to shoot it full of holes. In the meantime, this behavior is only reinforcing the point to anyone who happens to not be a programmer.

It's actually quite striking.

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