Giving Up Paying Off $186,000 Student Loan Debt • Hacker News Board

Re: Giving Up Paying Off $186,000 Student Loan Debt

#51

Post by danielweber » Wed, May 29, 2013, 9:04 PM UTC

dlf wrote: post #19

obviouslygreen wrote: post #5

To me, this is the flip side of the "predatory lending" coin: People who did it to themselves. I'm not even sure what the point of the article is supposed to be, if not a warning against financial irresponsibility. This person made mistakes. Yeah, we all do that, and some people's have worse consequences than others, but we're all pretty much stuck with them. In this case, someone went to law school, made some very c…

Public loans are discharged upon death, so there's that. Private loans are not though, and there can still be tax consequences for public loans. I think the most important theme to this article, aside from the individual story of debt and irresponsibility, is that this looks an awful lot like the way the housing bubble came about. Cheap debt that the borrowers are unable to afford long term. The difference here is th…

If that debt was dischargeable in bankruptcy, then the money wouldn't have been lent, and the schools would experience some kind of price pressure.

Re: Giving Up Paying Off $186,000 Student Loan Debt

#52

Post by tjdetwiler » Wed, May 29, 2013, 9:06 PM UTC

gangst wrote: post #2

Son of a bitch that is a lot of debt. It stresses me out just reading about it. I guess few people do the math correctly when they go get a degree. Can anyone here who opted to take a student loan for a technical degree speak to whether it is daunting to them or they are comfortable with the trade?

I did... less than half the amount described in this story though. The bulk of it when towards one of those MS degrees another front page article talks about.

I have to say I have no regrets. The job opportunities that were available to me with my BS were depressing and (relatively) low paying. Even with my aggressive loan payments I'm still taking home more than I would have without the investment and the lower salary.

Re: Giving Up Paying Off $186,000 Student Loan Debt

#53

Post by sliverstorm » Wed, May 29, 2013, 9:06 PM UTC

pestaa wrote: post #33

sliverstorm wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, twins probably would have been a surprise. That's probably what the article was referring to; who expects twins?

Twins are unexpected, but surely they knew at least one child will be born? Even one extra is a huge commitment when you don't have the means.

Read the quote carefully. IMO it is not saying that the pregnancy was a surprise, but that twins was a surprise.

Re: Giving Up Paying Off $186,000 Student Loan Debt

#54

Post by danielweber » Wed, May 29, 2013, 9:07 PM UTC

MisterBastahrd wrote: post #40

If you "give up," your lenders will eventually garnish your wages anyway. Better to pay what you owe voluntarily than have the choice of how much and how long to be taken away from you.

She can just go the destitute route. If they will take N% of her pay, why bother working at all?

Re: Giving Up Paying Off $186,000 Student Loan Debt

#55

Post by protomyth » Wed, May 29, 2013, 9:07 PM UTC

Where exactly is the guy who fathered these three children? Is he at least paying child support or am I missing a chunk of this story? It seems like with that money she would have been able to get the loans paid with her own money.

The article sounds like bad career planning given the missing or unwanted partner.

Re: Giving Up Paying Off $186,000 Student Loan Debt

#56

Post by danielweber » Wed, May 29, 2013, 9:09 PM UTC

chopsueyar wrote: post #21

steven2012 wrote: post #4

I'm not sure what sort of choice she has, besides not working again. You can't clear student loan debt through bankruptcy, so unless she decides to not work again, I'm not sure what her options are to never pay off the debt. Maybe this is a negotiation tactic with the debtors to pay a fraction of the loan instead?

It wasn't until 1991 that student loan debt was no longer dischargeable through bankruptcy. So, although unlikely, she may have based her decision on the possibility that, worse case scenario, she could have declared bankruptcy. Now the $20,000 personal loan for living expenses, I assume would still be dischargeable in bankruptcy.

I read the article as her using student loans to cover living expenses.

Which made sense at the time, since it was being subsidized.

Re: Giving Up Paying Off $186,000 Student Loan Debt

#57

Post by danielweber » Wed, May 29, 2013, 9:10 PM UTC

larsberg wrote: post #10

gangst wrote: post #2

Son of a bitch that is a lot of debt. It stresses me out just reading about it. I guess few people do the math correctly when they go get a degree. Can anyone here who opted to take a student loan for a technical degree speak to whether it is daunting to them or they are comfortable with the trade?

My wife and I each came out of our undergrad education with around 50k in college loans. But, we majored in Computer Science and both paid them off within the first two years of working and are now doing quite well . So we're quite comfortable with the trade. That said, you shouldn't need to take those kinds of loans anymore. We went to a top-10 school for CS back when you still had to get loans for them. These days,…

cover any difference between you/your family's ability to pay and the tuition

This is good advice, but don't forget that "your ability to pay" is just code for "perfect price discrimination."

Re: Giving Up Paying Off $186,000 Student Loan Debt

#58

Post by protomyth » Wed, May 29, 2013, 9:12 PM UTC

ambiate wrote: post #45

gangst wrote: post #2

Son of a bitch that is a lot of debt. It stresses me out just reading about it. I guess few people do the math correctly when they go get a degree. Can anyone here who opted to take a student loan for a technical degree speak to whether it is daunting to them or they are comfortable with the trade?

I started at a community college (and wish I had transferred in the full 60 hours). I went to a private university with 1/4th paid tuition. The other half (~12.5k/yr) was in my pockets. I stayed for 2.5 years. I achieved 100 hours of my bioinformatics/data science degree. I dropped out and went full-time at one of my internships with 40k in debt. I can comfortably pay back the $550/mo (over 10 years) to cover the loa…

To add, a lot of community colleges have agreements with local high schools to waive or reduce tuition for high school students taking classes before they graduate. This is a pretty good route if you are advising any young folks.

I transfered 25 credits in when I went to college, so it was an easy way to get rid of classes that would lecture bowl type stuff in a much smaller / interactive setting.

Re: Giving Up Paying Off $186,000 Student Loan Debt

#59

Post by rayiner » Wed, May 29, 2013, 9:20 PM UTC

mc-lovin wrote: post #37

yoloprocro wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your primary moral duty is to repay debt, eh? Unimportant things like "giving your life meaning" are unimportant.

As a consumer your only duty is to obey they law. However, moral duty is relevant when it comes to how society should think about debt. Everyone has things they would like to do if they had more money. Society should not be arranged to give people a free pass just because they want to do something that requires money.

> However, moral duty is relevant when it comes to how society should think about debt.

A debt is a contractual obligation and should be treated as such. One should not moralize contractual obligations.

E.g. During the housing crisis, there was a lot of moralizing about homeowners walking away from their underwater mortgages. Moralizing about debt in that way is bullshit. When lenders make a loan secured by collateral, they take the risk of the value of that collateral dropping. There is absolutely nothing immoral about forcing a lender to eat a risk it knowingly on.

Similarly, a corporation would not hesitate for a second, on moral grounds, to restructure its debts through bankruptcy, and neither should individuals. No moralizing needs to enter the equation. There is a penalty for declaring bankruptcy and failing to pay your debts, and that is future lenders being wary of lending you money. There is no need to add a moral dimension to the issue.

Re: Giving Up Paying Off $186,000 Student Loan Debt

#60

Post by adharmad » Wed, May 29, 2013, 9:25 PM UTC

yoloprocro wrote: post #31

Irregardless wrote: post #9

> She graduated in 1994 with more than $100,000 of debt. Within three years, she had one daughter, a surprise set of twins, and was earning less than $50,000 per year. 3 kids while earning $100k in debt? If that's not the embodiment of America's dire lack of financial and family planning skills, then I don't know what is. > "I’ve stressed to my daughter the importance of not borrowing any money." Maybe she should jus…

Your primary moral duty is to repay debt, eh? Unimportant things like "giving your life meaning" are unimportant.

She could have given as much meaning to her life as she wanted without racking up > 100K in debt. All this does is encourage people to not take responsibility of their own voluntary actions. (And no I am not referring to the children).