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“Printcrime” by Cory Doctorow

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Re: “Printcrime” by Cory Doctorow

#51

Post by MindTwister »

freehunter wrote: post #39
betterunix wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Change a few words and see if it still makes sense: what is the solution if a person uses their garage to make things for criminal purposes? If they get out of prison, do you still allow them to have a garage?

See that's not the same though, unless the garage directly led to making the crime possible. Change a few words and see if it still makes sense: what if the person used their life for criminal purposes? If they get out of prison do you still allow them to have life? A garage is a place, not a tool.

What about changing it then... If I build a detonator using a soldering iron and spare parts from a radio, should I be banned from ever owning a soldering iron... or a radio

Re: “Printcrime” by Cory Doctorow

#52

Post by anonymous »

yk wrote: post #48
angersock wrote: post #20

So, one wonders--how does anyone who detests the idea of getting arrested for printing things and having printer tech confiscated simultaneously detest the idea of printing weapons with which to defend yourself and your means of production?

On the risk of sounding like a libertarian, there is no scenario in which it is good idea to use violence against a government. They will win, it is their own game. The way to change a government is political action, not use of force.

I can conceive of some edge cases where shooting at a policeman or a soldier using home-printed weapons does have positive expected value. But in general I agree with you - it's like wrestling a herd of rhinos.

Re: “Printcrime” by Cory Doctorow

#53

Post by e12e »

brudgers wrote: post #25

A few months ago, I read Cory Doctrow's Makers . Having grown up in Orlando, rat as villain was blissful reading. Earlier this spring, I pulled Little Brother off the shelf at the library. As it happened, my son was just finishing Slaughter House Five: or the Children's Crusade at the very point I realized that he might enjoy its young adult tenor more than I would enjoy finishing it out of obligation. Ever since Hit…

My recommendation would be to get him started with something like python and pygame. Or perhaps racket, eg:

http://docs.racket-lang.org/draw/overview.html#(part._.Lines...

Or even processing.

Some of my early programming was messing with graphics -- first in BASIC and Assembler on the Amiga -- later on a Casio calculator (mixing the worst of assembler and BASIC, with performance lower than our old VIC20) -- using the book "Mathematical Toursit"[1] as guide.

I was very proud when after 4 hours I could look at the screen and see a black-and-white mandelbrot :-)

[1] http://www.amazon.com/dp/0716732505

Re: “Printcrime” by Cory Doctorow

#54

Post by e12e »

brudgers wrote: post #25

A few months ago, I read Cory Doctrow's Makers . Having grown up in Orlando, rat as villain was blissful reading. Earlier this spring, I pulled Little Brother off the shelf at the library. As it happened, my son was just finishing Slaughter House Five: or the Children's Crusade at the very point I realized that he might enjoy its young adult tenor more than I would enjoy finishing it out of obligation. Ever since Hit…

As for "similar to Hitch-hiker's guide" -- I strongly recommend "Last Chance to See" if you can get a hold of a copy. Fair warning, though - that might make your child take an interest in protecting the environment.

Re: “Printcrime” by Cory Doctorow

#55

Post by tomsthumb »

maeon3 wrote: post #13

This is reminiscent of Gnu's "Right to read". http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/right-to-read.html What is the solution if a person uses a printer to print devices that are used for what most people consider criminal behavior? For example, someone printing high performing secret remote detonating bomb materials for political enemy rallies. After they serve the prison sentence. Do you let them own an open source printer a…

What does printing have to do with the legality of possessing something? If it's illegal to have then it's illegal to have. Does it fundamentally matter how you got it?

On what basis can you really restrict peoples capacity to do something illegal using generally benign tools? You can't. Not without some serious shenanigans. I can bludgeon you to death with a stout leather shoe you know. No one is outlawing loafers next Tuesday.

Re: “Printcrime” by Cory Doctorow

#56

Post by e12e »

jbooth wrote: post #45
smacktoward wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Information always finds a way to propagate There are 1.3 billion people in China who would probably disagree.

You can spin up US cloud providers from inside China and tunnel to them in about 15 minutes. It's just that most people don't bother -- there'll always be the people on the edge, though.

You could. But someone unable to afford an account with a US cloud provider might not.

Re: “Printcrime” by Cory Doctorow

#57

Post by e12e »

DoubleMalt wrote: post #18
tvon wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> As soon as 3d printers will be able to replicate themselves, every regulation will be moot. I don't get this. In theory, if it were illegal to print "Item #325" having 200 printers doesn't make it any less illegal to print "Item #325". > Information always finds a way to propagate. Doesn't this presuppose that no secret has ever been kept?

>> As soon as 3d printers will be able to replicate themselves, every regulation will be moot. > I don't get this. In theory, if it were illegal to print "Item #325" having 200 printers doesn't make it any less illegal to print "Item #325". It might be illegal. But the law would be unenforceable. >> Information always finds a way to propagate. > Doesn't this presuppose that no secret has ever been kept? Valid point.…

Most places you're not allowed to carry a knife in crowds. Doesn't really matter if you've made it yourself or not.

Re: “Printcrime” by Cory Doctorow

#58

Post by curiousdannii »

e12e wrote: post #53
brudgers wrote: post #25

A few months ago, I read Cory Doctrow's Makers . Having grown up in Orlando, rat as villain was blissful reading. Earlier this spring, I pulled Little Brother off the shelf at the library. As it happened, my son was just finishing Slaughter House Five: or the Children's Crusade at the very point I realized that he might enjoy its young adult tenor more than I would enjoy finishing it out of obligation. Ever since Hit…

My recommendation would be to get him started with something like python and pygame. Or perhaps racket, eg: http://docs.racket-lang.org/draw/overview.html#(part._.Lines... Or even processing. Some of my early programming was messing with graphics -- first in BASIC and Assembler on the Amiga -- later on a Casio calculator (mixing the worst of assembler and BASIC, with performance lower than our old VIC20) -- using the…

https://code.google.com/p/pybotwar/ Pybotwar is fun!

Re: “Printcrime” by Cory Doctorow

#59

Post by brudgers »

e12e wrote: post #53
brudgers wrote: post #25

A few months ago, I read Cory Doctrow's Makers . Having grown up in Orlando, rat as villain was blissful reading. Earlier this spring, I pulled Little Brother off the shelf at the library. As it happened, my son was just finishing Slaughter House Five: or the Children's Crusade at the very point I realized that he might enjoy its young adult tenor more than I would enjoy finishing it out of obligation. Ever since Hit…

My recommendation would be to get him started with something like python and pygame. Or perhaps racket, eg: http://docs.racket-lang.org/draw/overview.html#(part._.Lines... Or even processing. Some of my early programming was messing with graphics -- first in BASIC and Assembler on the Amiga -- later on a Casio calculator (mixing the worst of assembler and BASIC, with performance lower than our old VIC20) -- using the…

He has Dr Racket and Closure CL via Emacs/Slime/LispCabinet on his laptop. If and when he is ready, he can use them.

Re: “Printcrime” by Cory Doctorow

#60

Post by Dylan16807 »

e12e wrote: post #57
DoubleMalt wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> As soon as 3d printers will be able to replicate themselves, every regulation will be moot. > I don't get this. In theory, if it were illegal to print "Item #325" having 200 printers doesn't make it any less illegal to print "Item #325". It might be illegal. But the law would be unenforceable. >> Information always finds a way to propagate. > Doesn't this presuppose that no secret has ever been kept? Valid point.…

Most places you're not allowed to carry a knife in crowds. Doesn't really matter if you've made it yourself or not.

You're not? I know some places ban very specific elements of 'knifes' that have nothing to do with how pokey they are for political reasons, but there are areas that actually ban having a knife?
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