Live data from Hacker News

Tolerating the Surface Pro

ozar.me

51–60 of 63 posts

Re: Tolerating the Surface Pro

#51

The author needs a laptop, possibly augmented with a Wacom tablet to draw during presentations. With the myriad of amazing laptop/netbooks available in the windows ecosystem a tablet would be my absolute last choice for his use case. The other angle is to consider that Surface is but one choice. Other manufacturers make excellent tablet/hybrid Windows 8 devices. They are probably a far better choice for general busin…

Brent the author here. As I stated in the article, I do indeed do have a laptop. However, carrying around a laptop, plus another backup laptop, plus a Wacom tablet is a little beyond what I'd like to travel with. About Excel with your fingers - you'd be surprised. The touch experience is surprisingly compelling once you get used to it. I'm always surprised at how often I reach out to touch the display on my laptop af…

Ultimately we all make the choices that make sense to us. I've travelled extensively in the US, Europe and South America conducting seminars and product demonstrations. I know the pain of carrying hundreds of pounds of equipment with you. Most memorable: picking up my large Pelican cases at Schiphol only to feel they were covered with yellow slime.

Anyhow, for business travel I would nearly always buy laptops in pairs. Really easy to clone them just before a trip and have true backup.

Two laptops and a Wacom are not going to be a significant departure from one laptop and surface. You can easily fit all of it in a laptop bag with room to spare. For convenience I eventually migrated towards wheeled laptop cases. You don't have to lug them around and they offer lots of room for gear and sometimes even a minimal overnight set of clothes, etc.

I am sure that eventually some tools will develop usable parallel touch UI's. I guess my point is that I can do everything I might generally have to do during a typical business trip on a ten year old notebook. Newer notebooks are far cheaper (I paid $3,000 for the Sony ten years ago) and far more capable. A tablet would be my absolute last choice as they are still really cumbersome and inconvenient to use.

Re: Tolerating the Surface Pro

#52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Brent the author here. As I stated in the article, I do indeed do have a laptop. However, carrying around a laptop, plus another backup laptop, plus a Wacom tablet is a little beyond what I'd like to travel with. About Excel with your fingers - you'd be surprised. The touch experience is surprisingly compelling once you get used to it. I'm always surprised at how often I reach out to touch the display on my laptop af…

Ultimately we all make the choices that make sense to us. I've travelled extensively in the US, Europe and South America conducting seminars and product demonstrations. I know the pain of carrying hundreds of pounds of equipment with you. Most memorable: picking up my large Pelican cases at Schiphol only to feel they were covered with yellow slime. Anyhow, for business travel I would nearly always buy laptops in pair…

Yellow ... slime?

I know it's not exactly on topic, but please do elaborate.

Re: Tolerating the Surface Pro

#53
post #2

I don't see battery life as being a small problem on a tablet. My ipad mini (with LTE) has become my primary communication device because I can use it intensively and forget to charge it for days at a time. 12 hours usage in addition to several more days of standby with all the features (push email etc) enabled means I go to my ipad over my blackberry that can't last a day or my mba that can't last a day. 3-4 hours f…

“3-4 hours for a portable tablet device is just pathetic.” True, but I wouldn’t call the Surface Pro ‘tablet portable’. It’s fairer to compare it with a notebook. With TypeCover, the Surface Pro is 2 centimeters thick, while a MacBook Air 11" has an average thickness of 1 centimeter. The Surface Pro is also a little heavier than a MacBook Air. Curiously, both devices have the same CPU, GPU, SSD, and RAM – but a MacBo…

The surface pro is intended to converge tablets and notebooks. That's why you'd put up with the sub par keyboard and touchpad. If you're going to consolidate to one device, then the battery life matters more than it does when you augment a notebook with a separate tablet.

Re: Tolerating the Surface Pro

#54
post #46
post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>The moment I need to bring the power cord and adaptor with me, portability goes to "desktop replacement" levels. Surely you don't just carry a tablet in your hand when walking to the office? Once something's too big for pockets I resort to a messenger bag over my shoulder, in which it's just as easy to include the power. Given that tablets don't seem to come with cases, how else would one transport it?

Working in the office is not working on the go. Working on the go is finish up stuff and send it before boarding a plane, or work on that same plane, or during your train commute. If you're going from home to the office and back, I don't see the point in carrying anything other than your smartphone. Talking about the general case, obviously, there are justifications for bringing a medium-sized laptop.

I get things done in all those cases on the setup I mentioned. Obviously if you're taking 8-hour flights then you need that much battery, but is that a common case?

Re: Tolerating the Surface Pro

#55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A big part of the Metro nightmare is that the built in apps (other than the core shell) suck. For instance, Metro lacks a file chooser where you can easily find files anywhere in your system. If the Metro interface had a good file chooser, you wouldn't have to drop out to use the file desktop chooser to find a file on any filesystem. If Windows 8.1 adds a good file chooser and if Microsoft addresses a few specific pr…

Why are you trying to work with files in the metro interface? I'm having trouble coming up with a use case where I'd need the file chooser to do any of the things you'd want to do in the touch interface. I can't speak to the music file thing because I haven't dealt with music files in years, it's always been an annoying and tedious experience for me (as is working with any large number of files with wonky metadata),…

Videos and music based on a NAS do indeed show up automatically. I just don't need that part - I need the music and videos when I'm on the road. (Streaming doesn't work on most airplanes.)

Re: Tolerating the Surface Pro

#56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

“For what conceivable purpose would you want to compare average thickness?” Along with length, width and depth, that’s what determines the volume of the object (=portability). The Surface Pro has 60% more volume as a MacBook Air 11". And yet, it gets hot, has loud fans, and has less battery life. That’s just bad engineering. As a replacement for a notebook and a tablet, it really should have at least as much battery…

Weight and size are what determine portability for everyone else, not how much water it could hold if it were doubling as a canteen. That's not mass, it's volume, by the way. The MBA is longer, wider, taller and heavier -- yet you've contrived a way to label that as "more portable"... ridiculous on its face. I'm not going to make this valueless discussion thread any longer, so to your reply: those numbers are made up…

The MBA is less than an inch longer and wider (because of the larger screen). It’s not as thick (‘tall’?) as the Surface Pro and it weighs less (2.38lbs) than a Surface Pro with TypeCover (2.55lbs).

Re: Tolerating the Surface Pro

#57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The MBA 11" is 19.2mm thick No, it’s not: “Height: 0.11-0.68 inch (0.3-1.7 cm)” http://www.apple.com/macbookair/specs.html The body has a wedge shape, on average 10mm thick: http://imgur.com/Ung7IQ3 > It gets the same run time per charge. No, it doesn’t. The Surface Pro gets 3,75 hours of battery life. http://www.engadget.com/2013/02/05/microsoft-surface-pro-rev...

For what conceivable purpose would you want to compare average thickness? I own an SP; it does not get 3.75 hours of battery life no matter what I do with it, and I could pull out a dozen review links to say that as well. Why are you trying so hard to make it look worse than it is?

That's 3.75 hours with a video continuously looping.

I get 6 - 7 hours on a low brightness with normal usage (web, email, visual studio, sql server, etc.)

Re: Tolerating the Surface Pro

#58
post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ultimately we all make the choices that make sense to us. I've travelled extensively in the US, Europe and South America conducting seminars and product demonstrations. I know the pain of carrying hundreds of pounds of equipment with you. Most memorable: picking up my large Pelican cases at Schiphol only to feel they were covered with yellow slime. Anyhow, for business travel I would nearly always buy laptops in pair…

Yellow ... slime? I know it's not exactly on topic, but please do elaborate.

Funny story. Not at the time, but it was hilarious once I got to the hotel and wrote an email describing what I went through.

This was my first time going to Amsterdam, about twelve years ago. Last minute business trip. I had no choice but to carry about 400 pounds of equipment with me. I think the excess baggage bill was about $2,000. It consisted of a set of anvil cases and pelican cases with all manner of equipment, even FPGA prototyping boards. I effectively had fully finished product as well as prototype hardware in order to be able to work on code based on feedback and demonstrate it.

The ordeal started in Los Angeles when I didn't have all of the right paperwork, including the necessary carnet, etc. Mad rush to get it all sorted the week of the trip.

I planned ahead and designed a custom heavy-duty dolly out of 80/20 extrusions to be able to move all of this stuff at both airports and within the city/hotel. The dolly had large wheels and could be taken apart and stored in the pelican case. Pile it on with the gear and a couple of ratchet straps held it all in place. Great plan.

I arrive at Schiphol and go to the carrousel. These things were pretty heavy, 60 to 90 lbs per case. This meant that when I saw one on the carrousel I had to be "all in". There was no messing around. Grab and get your whole body into it to pull the thing off the carrousel.

I see the first anvil case come around. I setup to grab it. The plan was to rotate it quickly onto my leg and use that as a fulcrum of sorts to rotate the case off the carousel. When I go to grab the case one of the handles feels really slimy. I mean, imagine if you squirted it with motor oil or pudding, somewhere in between those two. I was committed, so I ignored it. I pulled hard with both hands, put it on my leg, then, supporting it with my chest I got it down. It sounds awkward but it was a very natural move. Think olympic dead lifting but not quite going over your head.

Then I realize I am absolutely covered in yellow slime. Again, think somewhere between oil and pudding. Not quite liquid but not quite solid. Yellow and cold. Didn't smell. A few expletives later I had no choice but to get the other cases. All four of them were covered to some degree with this stuff.

By the time I get my luggage I look like I had gone mud wrestling in yellow slime. I was both angry and laughing my ass off. What are you going to do? Just roll with it.

I literally sat on the floor to take a moment. I was wearing loose fitting exercise clothes to be comfortable during flight. Thankfully the slime didn't go through the fabric.

I couldn't leave all of that gear alone. There was no way to clean myself up at that time. I got my dolly out and assembled it right there. Loaded all of the slime-covered cases onto it and set out to find the Custom's office.

When you travel with a lot of gear like that you need to have this document called a "Carnet" signed just about everywhere you go. It lists what you are carrying so that you don't have to pay import duties everywhere you go.

I soon learned that the Customs office was three buildings away from my terminal. And, of course, the only way there was to use this walkway that ramped up between buildings.

By the time I get to the Customs office I was sweating like a pig and covered with yellow slime. I can't even imagine what I must have looked like.

When I entered the room it was like I was Moses and the water parted. I mean, everyone got the fuck out of my way. It was hilarious. I get to the counter and the customs officer just signs the paperwork without even attempting to look inside the cases. I guess she didn't want to play with yellow slime.

As I go back to the hallway a janitor is making the rounds with his cart. He sees me and takes a look at my pile of cases covered in yellow slime. Without either one of us uttering a single word, the guy grabs to large rolls of paper towels and a full bottle of cleaner (like windex) puts them down on the floor next to my gear and continues walking.

Again, laughing my ass off as the entire thing was surreal beyond belief. So, here I am, windex-ing the shit out of everything, including myself, in front of the Customs office. Of course, when it came to my clothes I got a lot of slime off but also ended-up smearing a lot of it everywhere. I mean, I looked like shit.

Now I had to make the trip back three buildings to get back to my terminal and go through the immigration area. Everyone was pretty nice. I was asked about the contents of the cases, my paperwork was checked but nobody was interested in opening the cases. Also, oddly enough, not one person asked me what happened or why I looked the way I did. Are the Dutch that polite?

Once out I was able to go into a bathroom and at least wash off some of the slime and sweat. I didn't change my clothes because I just didn't want to dirty another set. I did clean the cases to a reasonable degree.

Getting a taxi was a real challenge. Few seemed interested in carrying that much stuff.

When I finally got one the guy took one look at me and another look at the equipment and said "I have a bad back, sorry". So, I had to load all of the equipment onto the van. By this point in time I was absolutely exhausted. Under those conditions humor and a good attitude makes a good situation bearable and you just move on.

When I get to the hotel I found out that the hotel attendant also has a bad back. Throughout my stay in Amsterdam it seems I always managed to find people or taxi drivers with bad backs. Again, it became really funny after a while.

In talking to the airline I came to find out a shipment of some sort of lubricant was ruptured in the cargo area and, wouldn't you know it, all of my cases were located right next to it. They apologized and bumped me to first class for the trip back. Good deal.

It's funny how we don't remember the museum trips or the city tour but stories such as this one remain etched into your mind and actually become the kinds of stories you smile about when you remember and tell them.

Also, every time I think "CEO" I remember myself covered in yellow slime and sweat.

Re: Tolerating the Surface Pro

#59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Weight and size are what determine portability for everyone else, not how much water it could hold if it were doubling as a canteen. That's not mass, it's volume, by the way. The MBA is longer, wider, taller and heavier -- yet you've contrived a way to label that as "more portable"... ridiculous on its face. I'm not going to make this valueless discussion thread any longer, so to your reply: those numbers are made up…

The MBA is less than an inch longer and wider (because of the larger screen). It’s not as thick (‘tall’?) as the Surface Pro and it weighs less (2.38lbs) than a Surface Pro with TypeCover (2.55lbs).

[deleted]

Re: Tolerating the Surface Pro

#60

I switched to the Surface Pro as my primary development box. Surprised that I could get VS2012, SQL Express 2012 and IIS working with decent performance. If you are using an SDXC card to supplement your storage and don't intend to eject it on a whim, you can get better performance by going to the device manager and changing the removal policy and the write caching. Options for 256gb or 512gb SSD would have made this…

Wow, glutten for punishment. My primary development box is a fully loaded 17" laptop. Tablets are too small screen wise and performance wise when doing real work either in the OSS or Redmond realm. (I deal with tons of Data and run a few VMs as well.)

I carried a Lenovo W510 15" that was simply not workable on flights and heavy and clumsy for standing in line at security checkpoints. And "pro" systems like this don't play well with airline power systems. The surface has worked on Qantas, Air Canada and Lufthansa flights where I have had power. At my desk I project to a big monitor and it has worked out pretty well.
Post reply on HN