Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Human rights record of the United States in 2012 (Chinese viewpoint)

chinadaily.com.cn

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

51–60 of 88 posts

Re: Human rights record of the United States in 2012 (Chinese viewpoint)

#51

Post by b6 »

adventured wrote: post #40
ankitml wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If Chinese do human rights violations, this doesnt mean USA is not doing it. If we are talking about violations dome by americans, lets stick to that. I am sure much positive can come from that discussion than finding faults with the messenger.

The US deserves criticism. Hefty doses of it. Particularly because our government is betraying the very principles the country is supposed to represent. But faults? Mao killed tens of millions through forced famine alone, and he's practically worshiped as a god in China. There are no countries without bad marks on their records, but on the scale of recent bad marks, it's pretty twisted for China to criticize anybody.

Mostly agree, but, nitpick: I've only lived in China for about two years, but I don't think it's exactly right to say Mao is practically worshipped. I think it's better to say most Chinese people are thankful to him for various things he did, while accepting he also made terrible mistakes.

Re: Human rights record of the United States in 2012 (Chinese viewpoint)

#52

Post by dferlemann »

So many comments basically saying Chinese media has no right to comment on human right issue as China does it so poorly. The whole point of this linked article is that the other side is thinking exactly the same. Talking about nationalism... there is just no objectivity on both sides. Both sides should just mind their own business - hell, like that gonna happen.

Re: Human rights record of the United States in 2012 (Chinese viewpoint)

#53

Post by arethuza »

adventured wrote: post #49
yummyfajitas wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's also, significantly, an outlier in its rate of firearm-related deaths, The US is also an outlier in it's rate of bludgeoning and stabbing, at 1.7/100,000. By contrast, the murder rate (all weapons) in western europe is 1.0/100,000, southern europe is 1.4/100,000, and northern europe is 1.5/100,000. I suppose bill of rights causes stabbings and beatings also? http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/homicide.htm https://e…

The US rate of violent crime is half that of Canada, and 75% lower than Britain. It's lower than France, Finland, Sweden, the Netherlands, Belgium, and so on. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1196941/The-violent-...

Worth noting a couple of points made in an article in Telegraph (which is of a similar political view to the Mail) that covers the same ground:

"Researchers admit that comparisons of crime data between countries must be viewed with caution because of differing criminal justice systems and how crimes are reported and measured."

"A Home Office spokesperson said: “These figures are misleading. Levels of police recorded crime statistics from different countries are simply not comparable since they are affected by many factors, for example the recording of violent crime in other countries may not include behaviour that we would categorise as violent crime. "

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/law-and-order/5712573...

NB I'm not denying that the UK probably has more violent crime than the US (although I suspect that, just as with gun crime in the US, this is highly concentrated in particular areas and times).

Re: Human rights record of the United States in 2012 (Chinese viewpoint)

#54

Post by b6 »

adventured wrote: post #46

"Americans are the most heavily armed people in the world per capita. According to a CNN report on July 23, 2012, there were an estimated 270 million guns in the hands of civilians in the U.S. and more than 100,000 people were shot by guns each year. In 2010, there were more than 30,000 deaths caused by firearms." There are roughly 11,000 gun based murders each year in the US. The US doesn't first have a gun violence…

I'm not disagreeing, but there's one thing I don't understand. China has more poor people, and their poor are poorer, and their drug laws are as bad as the US's, if not worse. If the problem is just poverty and drug laws, shouldn't we see more violence in China?

Re: Human rights record of the United States in 2012 (Chinese viewpoint)

#55

Post by LekkoscPiwa »

RyanMcGreal wrote: post #34
The_Sponge wrote: post #4

It's interesting to see the availability of firearms to citizens presented as a violation of human rights. >Firearms-related crimes posed serious threat to the lives and personal security of citizens in the U.S. Some shootings left astonishing casualties, such as the school shooting in Oakland, the Century 16 theater shooting in Colorado and the school shooting in Connecticut. Also, please be aware that this is a tra…

> It's interesting to see the availability of firearms to citizens presented as a violation of human rights. The U.S. is an outlier among liberal democracies in its constitutional insistence that access to firearms is a human right. It's also, significantly, an outlier in its rate of firearm-related deaths, with a rate of over 10 per 100,000, similar to Panama and the Philippines and three times higher than the next…

The US never had communism, nazism, tyrants governing the country. Try to pull off concentration camps against your own people like Hitler or Stalin did when they are heavily armed.

There is no way people wouldn't defend their families from going to concentration camps if they were armed. History shows that this holds true. The Government is afraid of armed people as it should be. That is a good thing. Not bad.

Re: Human rights record of the United States in 2012 (Chinese viewpoint)

#56

Post by antman »

wyqueshocec wrote: post #47
Loic wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I suppose you can consider that the high number of deaths due to firearms in the US goes against the right to "life[1], liberty and security of person". From a European point of view, the US right to carry/own a weapon is so used and out of control that it affects this basic right to life. [1]: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right_to_life

If you deprive someone of their life with your weapon, that's a crime called murder. There is no right in the US to actually shoot anyone; you do realize that?

It is not about if you have the right to shoot, it is about if you have the right not to get shot

Re: Human rights record of the United States in 2012 (Chinese viewpoint)

#57

Post by adventured »

b6 wrote: post #54
adventured wrote: post #46

"Americans are the most heavily armed people in the world per capita. According to a CNN report on July 23, 2012, there were an estimated 270 million guns in the hands of civilians in the U.S. and more than 100,000 people were shot by guns each year. In 2010, there were more than 30,000 deaths caused by firearms." There are roughly 11,000 gun based murders each year in the US. The US doesn't first have a gun violence…

I'm not disagreeing, but there's one thing I don't understand. China has more poor people, and their poor are poorer, and their drug laws are as bad as the US's, if not worse. If the problem is just poverty and drug laws, shouldn't we see more violence in China?

It's poverty + drug laws + guns, that is the killer cocktail. You can't hardly come up with a worse combination.

China has violence, but they don't have much gun violence because 1) guns are often beyond the financial capabilities of their poor, and 2) there aren't very many guns per capita.

In the US it isn't difficult to come up with $150 if you're poor and want a black market gun. The US poverty line for a household of 1 starts at $11,500 (it goes without saying how much higher that is than most incomes in China, so the availability of cash to buy a gun for even someone that's poor is radically higher in the US).

A good example of this in action is Brazil. Their gun homicide rate is twice that of the US. They have some intense poverty and guns, and thus have a very high gun homicide rate (eg compared to China, that just has poverty but limited guns).

Also it's fair to say, to top it off, that the US has a far more violent culture in general than China, that amplifies the problem. I'm not speaking of state sponsored violence mind you.

Re: Human rights record of the United States in 2012 (Chinese viewpoint)

#58

Post by nineteenturtles »

ankitml wrote: post #33
spitx wrote: post #30

This is utter balderdash. A nation that executes thousands of its citizens yearly, while also arranging sham trials and allowing affluent perpetrators to have body doubles serve lengthy prison sentences, should be the last to point fingers at any judiciary, elsewhere. At least, Middle Eastern states follow Shariah, a religious code (however harsh or barbaric) that dictates the severity of the punishment. These Chines…

If Chinese do human rights violations, this doesnt mean USA is not doing it. If we are talking about violations dome by americans, lets stick to that. I am sure much positive can come from that discussion than finding faults with the messenger.

If the Chinese do human rights violations...

I'm not even sure how to respond to that.

Re: Human rights record of the United States in 2012 (Chinese viewpoint)

#59

Post by [deleted] »

adventured wrote: post #46

"Americans are the most heavily armed people in the world per capita. According to a CNN report on July 23, 2012, there were an estimated 270 million guns in the hands of civilians in the U.S. and more than 100,000 people were shot by guns each year. In 2010, there were more than 30,000 deaths caused by firearms." There are roughly 11,000 gun based murders each year in the US. The US doesn't first have a gun violence…

[deleted]

Re: Human rights record of the United States in 2012 (Chinese viewpoint)

#60

Post by odiroot »

LekkoscPiwa wrote: post #55
RyanMcGreal wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's interesting to see the availability of firearms to citizens presented as a violation of human rights. The U.S. is an outlier among liberal democracies in its constitutional insistence that access to firearms is a human right. It's also, significantly, an outlier in its rate of firearm-related deaths, with a rate of over 10 per 100,000, similar to Panama and the Philippines and three times higher than the next…

The US never had communism, nazism, tyrants governing the country. Try to pull off concentration camps against your own people like Hitler or Stalin did when they are heavily armed. There is no way people wouldn't defend their families from going to concentration camps if they were armed. History shows that this holds true. The Government is afraid of armed people as it should be. That is a good thing. Not bad.

Tell that to the unfortunate Americans of Japanese descent who where thrown into "internment" camps after Pearl Harbour. I doubt any guns would've helped them change government's mind.
Post reply on HN