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Why aren't Cubans, Quebecois, Saudis, Syrians allowed in Google Code Jam

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Re: Why aren't Cubans, Quebecois, Saudis, Syrians allowed in Google Code Jam

#51

Post by rayiner »

JPKab wrote: post #45
rayiner wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it does. Language discrimination can be an extremely vitriolic form of oppression, and don't underestimate how much it sucks to be a second class citizen in your own country. Just look at the AAVE thread on HN a couple of weeks ago.

AAVE is one dialect among dozens in the US that will get you discriminated against. I grew up in Appalachia (West Virginia/southwestern Virginia line) and when I'm at home or with friends/relatives, my natural dialect is potent. However, over many years, starting in late high school, I trained myself to speak in a more standard form of English to protect myself from the discrimination of the "hillbilly" stigma. This…

But that's my point. Dialects are entirely arbitrary, yet there is overt discrimination against particular ones, combined with classist and or racist overtones. Given that sort of discrimination, one can at least put together a picture of why the French in Quebec are as protective of their language as their historical marginalization.

My family is from Bangladesh, which separated from Pakistan (in an independence war), over language differences. Historically, those language differences were a proxy for the cultural marginalization of Bengalis within the Pakistani state.

So when we hear about the Quebecois requiring the use of French, and we think "oh those silly French Canadians" we have to remember that there is a lot more to language than just how people speak.

Re: Why aren't Cubans, Quebecois, Saudis, Syrians allowed in Google Code Jam

#52

Post by xr09 »

JPKab wrote: post #47
xr09 wrote: post #28

OK I'm a Cuban programmer and can tell you this measure sucks big time, if the blocked government wants anything from Google Code, Sourceforge or any other "restricted" place they have mirrors, nice people on other unblocked countries willing to help and as last resource a tor proxy will do. So this measure only asserts read-only access, nothing else. Actually US goverment looks stupid when do things like this, you c…

Dude, you made my day. I'm pretty fascinated by my Gringo stereotypes of Cuba colliding with a programmer on HN. I'm picturing a guy with a laptop, palm trees in the background, lots of antique cars driving on the street behind him, a brass band somewhere nearby, a pork sandwich on a plate. Please, please be wearing a Che/Fidel hat. In all seriousness, I'm curious about the internet situation there. How's the bandwid…

You missed the "Havana Club" rum bottle and a mulatta. ;)

Well, the internet access is a delicate topic, lots of schools have it, government offices, but not much civilians yet, they say is coming soon, but the problem is they fear technology (old people mostly), they see it as a possible way of US Gov. and Miami oppositors to take control of our minds or whatever.

Old people have fears, they have their reasons, young people have ideas, we want to push forward. And is like that, some get tired of waiting for a change and go away to a more tech-savvy place, but is not an option for everyone.

The bandwith is better than 5 years ago and improving, it's not wideband but we can live with that.

Anyway, it sucks to have studied IT Engineering (so far, thousands of us http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/University_of_Information_Scien...) to end up setting up printers and not creating awesome stuff, people in charge have no faith in knowledge products.

I realized a big truth reading Peopleware: The "Spanish Theory of Value" is killing us.

Re: Why aren't Cubans, Quebecois, Saudis, Syrians allowed in Google Code Jam

#53

Post by phowat »

xr09 wrote: post #28

OK I'm a Cuban programmer and can tell you this measure sucks big time, if the blocked government wants anything from Google Code, Sourceforge or any other "restricted" place they have mirrors, nice people on other unblocked countries willing to help and as last resource a tor proxy will do. So this measure only asserts read-only access, nothing else. Actually US goverment looks stupid when do things like this, you c…

I clicked the evilhub.com link out of curiosity and it redirects to a porn-youtube kind of site. Just a heads up to people browsing this from work.

Re: Why aren't Cubans, Quebecois, Saudis, Syrians allowed in Google Code Jam

#54

Post by PeterisP »

kintamanimatt wrote: post #50
PeterisP wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you pay money to someone from Belgium for a service (which, in a legal sense, is how Google Summer of Code works) then that transaction is definitely subject to Belgian laws. Just as if you sell something to someone from Belgium over the internet, both your and their law applies.

If I sell something to a Belgian and I'm, say, a Canadian company, I don't suddenly become subject to Belgian law. I don't have to account for distance selling regulations, data protection regulations, VAT, local taxes or anything else. I'd be subject to Canadian law, and that's all. Chances are the contract would even state that the jurisdiction were somewhere in Canada. (Yes, I know contracts aren't always perfectl…

Jurisdiction may be disputed, and yes, in sales disputes it might be decided that Belgium doesn't have jurisdiction over that contract if you have no subsidiaries or other relations there. Still, even in your case the "target" country law does apply for whatever things happen on their side of the border - and it may impact you. Say, if the item is considered illegal there then it may be confiscated at customs, leaving you without the item and payment; and your local courts won't help you there.

But in Google Summer of Code case, if it's treated as 'work for hire' then the host country definitely has jurisdiction as the actual work happens there. And Google has subsidiaries worldwide (used for ad sales), so they can easily be targeted.

Re: Why aren't Cubans, Quebecois, Saudis, Syrians allowed in Google Code Jam

#55

Post by sareon »

remi wrote: post #31
sareon wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Quebec? I don't see it happening. It has been like that for as long as I can remember. They can't even enter McDonald's contests like Monopoly. They have their own separate contests.

> They can't even enter McDonald's contests like Monopoly. This is plain wrong. The McDonald’s Monopoly contest is held in all (participating) Canadian McDonald’s restaurants, including Quebec’s. Source: I live in Quebec.

Yes and it's run separately from the rest of Canada's monopoly. Look at the fine print on the prizes in the Ontario McDonald's monopoly which clearly states that it excludes Quebec. Source: I live in Quebec.

Re: Why aren't Cubans, Quebecois, Saudis, Syrians allowed in Google Code Jam

#56

Post by xr09 »

phowat wrote: post #53
xr09 wrote: post #28

OK I'm a Cuban programmer and can tell you this measure sucks big time, if the blocked government wants anything from Google Code, Sourceforge or any other "restricted" place they have mirrors, nice people on other unblocked countries willing to help and as last resource a tor proxy will do. So this measure only asserts read-only access, nothing else. Actually US goverment looks stupid when do things like this, you c…

I clicked the evilhub.com link out of curiosity and it redirects to a porn-youtube kind of site. Just a heads up to people browsing this from work.

Damn, I had my hopes with that name.

Re: Why aren't Cubans, Quebecois, Saudis, Syrians allowed in Google Code Jam

#57

Post by kmlymi »

JiPi wrote: post #32
Farox wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're not too far off. Companies have to, with growing size, do more and more stuff in french. At large companies that aren't exempt you must have a french keyboard for example and code comments have to be in french.

I live in Quebec and worked in big organizations, even public ones like the Governement and a city, and never ever heard that. Source please?

A lot of companies fragment themselves into smaller chunks with employees under 49 to avoid laws like this.

Re: Why aren't Cubans, Quebecois, Saudis, Syrians allowed in Google Code Jam

#58

Post by JPKab »

rayiner wrote: post #51
JPKab wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

AAVE is one dialect among dozens in the US that will get you discriminated against. I grew up in Appalachia (West Virginia/southwestern Virginia line) and when I'm at home or with friends/relatives, my natural dialect is potent. However, over many years, starting in late high school, I trained myself to speak in a more standard form of English to protect myself from the discrimination of the "hillbilly" stigma. This…

But that's my point. Dialects are entirely arbitrary, yet there is overt discrimination against particular ones, combined with classist and or racist overtones. Given that sort of discrimination, one can at least put together a picture of why the French in Quebec are as protective of their language as their historical marginalization. My family is from Bangladesh, which separated from Pakistan (in an independence war…

I agree with your description of the problem. In fact, its easy for people like me to forget that, rather than attack the classist, ethnocentric actuality of the fact that we are expected to speak a certain dialect of English due to old class systems, we have simply chosen to be pragmatic and use our own dialect at home, and the 'other' dialect in formal environments.

However, the Quebecois don't need to do what they are doing. They live in a modern nation with civil rights protections. Forcing people to use French is its own form of oppression.

Re: Why aren't Cubans, Quebecois, Saudis, Syrians allowed in Google Code Jam

#59

Post by ubernostrum »

kintamanimatt wrote: post #49
ubernostrum wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I understand that this is something people don't get, but: yes, if you are doing something that can be construed as "doing business" in a country, then you get to be subject to that country's laws regardless of whether you have offices there or have ever set foot on that country's territory. This is not particularly new. What is new is the general belief I've seen in many people that "but I did it on the internet!" i…

Such laws would be really, really difficult, if not impossible to enforce. I seem to remember there are certain laws the British government thinks applies to foreign companies that have no ties to the UK but otherwise do business with British residents, but in the same breath says they have no way to enforce them.

Enforcement's not so terribly hard. Look at the US campaign against online gambling; when they want to crack down, they can cut off the flow of money to customers in the US.

Re: Why aren't Cubans, Quebecois, Saudis, Syrians allowed in Google Code Jam

#60

Post by psychopaf »

JiPi wrote: post #36
caissy wrote: post #30

As a fellow french speaking Quebecer, this is because of the "Régie des alcools, des courses et des jeux", the main office regulating alcool, races and gambling. In our legislation, if you are making a contest with the intent of giving away more than CAD$2000, you must get a licence from them[1]. Many companies just don't want to get their head in this. The main reasoning behind this is to keep track of the contests…

Exactly! As simple as that! This is why we are always (almost) excluded from any contests :)

But we smoke Cuban cigars - legally ;)
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