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A SimCity Update

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51–60 of 74 posts

Re: A SimCity Update

#51
post #49

I wonder. In a previous post here on HN, somebody said in a comment, that the Sim City infrastructure runs in Amazon's infrastructure. Isn't one of the big advantages of cloud computing the ability to scale your hardware with demand? Why only scale up by 130% when there's still people having problems? Why not scale until everybody has a good experience? I don't even think it's going to cost all that much: after the i…

Things don't scale that easily. I'm guessing you're not a programmer.

Question: If it takes 1 server to handle 1,000 clients, how many servers does it take to handle 1,000,000 clients?

Answer: Between 1 and infinity. It might not even be physically possible to serve 1,000,000 clients, depending on the application.

Re: A SimCity Update

#52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is worth noting that Blizzard has a policy of 30day refunds, which had no noticeable affect on the PR catastrophe called Diablo 3.

Even without DIII's always-on DRM it was always going to have a bumpy launch. People's expectations were just insane by the time the game actually hit and they were bound to be left disappointed no matter what. The always-on DRM and downtime just added insult to injury. I think in retrospect, instead of going the refund route, Blizzard could have listened to people and then set out a plan for the game in the first fe…

Multi still isn't better than D2, one year later. I don't think expectations were that high. I think they actually sold less than planned and went into low-activity maintenance mode after a few month. Not buying again from them. Game may sucks or not, but empty promises, I can't give money for that.

Re: A SimCity Update

#53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Assuming you agree with CD Projekt's approach to gathering piracy statistics, the community rewarded them by pirating the game in extraordinarily large numbers, despite the gesture of good faith http://gamespot.com/news/the-witcher-2-pirated-45-million-ti...

First of all, what is this monolithic "community" you're talking about? Secondly, the question is not if more people will pirate without DRM, but if the company can increase their revenues - in the long term - by making that move.

I'm basically referring to the fervent anti-DRM crowd (most gaming sites communities), and I would have expected at least a lower than average piracy rate for a game where the developer basically "gave in" to this group, in an attempt to placate them.

Apparently this group is group is not actually that big/influential and/or there is a significant group of people who pirate regardless of developer goodwill, etc.

Re: A SimCity Update

#54

Can someone explain the following - People are upset with the game -- sounds like it is unplayable Most of those people paid with credit card. I understand the desire to want to play the game, but if EA is being a sh*t, why not go the charge dispute route?

I've done quite a few charge disputes, and had several kicked back at me by Wells Fargo visa. I don't know If this Is a 'visa' policy, or a 'wells Fargo' policy, but as long as the vendor provides evidence that this was an actual purchase by an authorized cardholder, and they delivered the product, then there is no grounds for charge dispute. You cannot (successfully) dispute a charge just because the product does not work as advertised with Wells Fargo visa.

Re: A SimCity Update

#55
post #49

I wonder. In a previous post here on HN, somebody said in a comment, that the Sim City infrastructure runs in Amazon's infrastructure. Isn't one of the big advantages of cloud computing the ability to scale your hardware with demand? Why only scale up by 130% when there's still people having problems? Why not scale until everybody has a good experience? I don't even think it's going to cost all that much: after the i…

Things don't scale that easily. I'm guessing you're not a programmer. Question: If it takes 1 server to handle 1,000 clients, how many servers does it take to handle 1,000,000 clients? Answer: Between 1 and infinity. It might not even be physically possible to serve 1,000,000 clients, depending on the application.

I'm certainly aware of what you are saying. But: if you can scale up the infrastructure by 130% in one week, then you have certainly baked the notion of scalability into your initial design. The fact that scaling to 130% helped makes me think that adding more capacity will help more.

As such, it is potentially also possible to scale up to 200 or 500%, giving even more users a chance to play. I don't expect it to scale linearly with the added hardware, but it will help a bit.

From a technical standpoint, I've learned somethings (from which I'm drawing my conclusions. Bear with me) about their problem:

0) the architecture is hosted on Amazons infrastructure

1) as part of their mitigation, they have turned off the ability to increase simulation speed. This points to a lack of CPU resources on the application servers or a lack of io resources on the backend database to keep up with the increased rate of changes to the data model. However, I've heard from various comments that they might not actually be storing all that state on-the-fly but syncing it at the end of the session at which point the db load would be independent of simulation speed.

I'm inclined to think that CPU starvation on the app servers was likely the reason why they disabled cheetah speed.

Adding more frontend CPU power is quite trivially done by adding more app servers and having each of them deal with fewer concurrent users. In the end, they could use one app server per region (= 10ish cities. Not all of them necessarily being played concurrently) without having to do a lot of additional work in synchronizing region state between machines.

2) https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5347611 was talking about database io issues. This is of course a problem you can't just solve by adding more machines as many databases can't easily scale horizontally.

The way how sim city works though lends itself very well to sharding: run regions independently and balance them across multiple machines. Add more machines and rebalance shards (with downtime if you have to, but people weren't able to play anyways)

This is all the information I had to build my opinion on. I did however reflect upon these facts before posting my opinion by which I stand even now.

Being able to scale 130% in a week, having an easily shardable problem and having frontend server CPU starvation tells me personally, that adding more machines could be possible (but maybe not economically feasible).

Of course it's guesswork in the end. But writing these half-technical articles like the submission I linked above do invite guesswork. As long as one has at least some facts to start with, a discussion is still warranted. I have no problem in being proven wrong by additional facts, a different interpretation of the facts or just one article that goes beyond trying to convert PR speech into technical facts (above linked article)

Re: A SimCity Update

#56

Who wants to bet that the free game will be limited to 2+ year old titles? And still no acknowledgment for the people that either don't care to play online or can't maintain a stable internet connection. Want to play while travelling? Want to play while in the military & deployed? Fuck you!

Why would you buy a game you know before hand must be played online if you don't have a good Internet connection or would want to play while in an airplane? You shouldn't be mad at EA you should pissed at yourself for letting that happen.

Re: A SimCity Update

#57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

First of all, what is this monolithic "community" you're talking about? Secondly, the question is not if more people will pirate without DRM, but if the company can increase their revenues - in the long term - by making that move.

I'm basically referring to the fervent anti-DRM crowd (most gaming sites communities), and I would have expected at least a lower than average piracy rate for a game where the developer basically "gave in" to this group, in an attempt to placate them. Apparently this group is group is not actually that big/influential and/or there is a significant group of people who pirate regardless of developer goodwill, etc.

1) In the case of CD Projekt you're ignoring the part about how their DRM was cracked in about 48 hours. If I remember correctly, that's one of the major reasons they abandoned it.

2) Most of the "fervent anti-DRM crowd" are actually the people who pay for the games. Real pirates could care less about traditional DRM schemes; they could always circumvent them until now.

3) As algorias already mentioned there are multiple communities in gaming. I'm sure video game piracy stats also greatly vary by country. I'm going to take a wild guess that it's the worst in Asia (excluding Japan) due to the culture.

Re: A SimCity Update

#58
post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Things don't scale that easily. I'm guessing you're not a programmer. Question: If it takes 1 server to handle 1,000 clients, how many servers does it take to handle 1,000,000 clients? Answer: Between 1 and infinity. It might not even be physically possible to serve 1,000,000 clients, depending on the application.

I'm certainly aware of what you are saying. But: if you can scale up the infrastructure by 130% in one week, then you have certainly baked the notion of scalability into your initial design. The fact that scaling to 130% helped makes me think that adding more capacity will help more. As such, it is potentially also possible to scale up to 200 or 500%, giving even more users a chance to play. I don't expect it to scal…

"Being able to scale 130% in a week, having an easily shardable problem and having frontend server CPU starvation tells me personally, that adding more machines could be possible (but maybe not economically feasible)."

I strongly feel that this is the real problem, especially since Amazon as extra large instances available now.

Re: A SimCity Update

#59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It sometimes happens: http://arstechnica.com/gaming/2011/05/the-witcher-2-patch-re...

Assuming you agree with CD Projekt's approach to gathering piracy statistics, the community rewarded them by pirating the game in extraordinarily large numbers, despite the gesture of good faith http://gamespot.com/news/the-witcher-2-pirated-45-million-ti...

This falls prey to the classic fallacy of "piracy" critics, that all instances of piracy are effectively lost sales.

In fact, there's little evidence this is so for most games. It makes sense that a game that can be pirated will be so by a higher number of people than those who pay for it, but this alone does not support the conclusion that the rates of purchase for a game that is extensively pirated are necessarily lower than if that wasn't the case.

In the case of The Witcher 2, after the patch that removed the onerous SecuROM DRM fully 4 million additional copies of the game have been purchased to date, compared to around 1 million copies total purchased during the few months after release while the DRM was still in place.

Re: A SimCity Update

#60
post #3

> And to get us back in your good graces, we’re going to offer you a free PC download game from the EA portfolio. > I know that’s a little contrived – kind of like buying a present for a friend after you did something crummy. But we feel bad about what happened. We’re hoping you won’t stay mad and that we’ll be friends again when SimCity is running at 100 percent. To me, this seems insulting. They know most of their…

It is worth noting that Blizzard has a policy of 30day refunds, which had no noticeable affect on the PR catastrophe called Diablo 3.

At least I could play D3 on launch day.

But Blizzard has been "always online" for a while now. It's not really new to them. And they have a fuck ton of servers.

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