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Letter from Steve Wozniak to a high school student in Korea

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Re: Letter from Steve Wozniak to a high school student in Korea

#51
post #19

Computer apps are not to be judged by what they do or how well they do it. Rather, it is more important that they feel natural to normal humans and they are led to the right actions. This statement makes me sad... but I cannot articulate exactly why. Edit: I like the essay in general. It's very motivating. It would have been great advice when in highschool.

Its because like many nerds, you love to program, and you love THE program.

I find that many technical people actually find that while they keep solving technical problems, the people problem never goes away with their software.

We treat people as idiots and act in condescending manners because we think they are too dumb to use our software or computers in general, but the truth is our software is dumb and a lot of us dont want to change it.

Re: Letter from Steve Wozniak to a high school student in Korea

#52
post #42

You are recognized by your own skills and good work, and you don‘t have to criticize others for not doing good work. Just worry about your own skills. Wozniak is a very technically brilliant guy, and I have the utmost level of respect for him. But the sentence I quoted above just shows that he's also a stereotypical "nerd" in a lot of ways [1], in the sense that he has a very poor understanding of how humans operate,…

From my experience most "nerds" are actually way too quick to criticize others. They lack confidence in their social skills so they form an identity around their supposed technical abilities. Then they use that identity to justify bullying, but instead of beating up someone with a diminutive stature they'll post a tweet about how someone is a moron for not using the correct design pattern on some code they posted on…

A lot of the time it is also just lack of understanding of how others will respond.

A lot of "nerd bullying" is unintended and seem to happen through brutally harsh technical criticism that we often don't realize can affect others really badly.

I used to work with a now well known blogger who is reasonably technical, but not a developer, and I used to fall prey to this with him.

In one meeting, we were chatting while waiting for someone to bring some documents, and he told me "when I first met you, I thought you were a total jerk, because it seemed like in every meeting when I opened my mouth, you'd shoot me down". After a while he realised it wasn't personal, but he still didn't quite understand why I was seemingly picking on him.

And it was true. I did shoot him down a lot. But I was flabbergasted. To me, my criticism was essential technical discussion. What's more, as I told him, the only reason I often criticised his ideas was because they were often good. Good ideas deserve thorough attention. Good ideas deserve criticism, because it is by fixing the rough edges we turn a good idea into something great. I had, and have, a huge amount of respect for his ideas.

The reason I kept my mouth shut when a lot of the rest of the management team came up with suggestions was because I often didn't believe they were interesting enough to be worth it, and I had a good idea for when any of those ideas might get traction enough to be worth shooting down, but mostly the bad ideas just got me to pull back and think about something else.

Sometimes we do bring out the heavy guns for really bad ideas too, but even then there is often a tacit admission of respect on some level, though influence rather than technical proficiency: Only the really insecure or clueless wastes lots of time criticising someone with no influence. We criticise bad ideas incredibly harshly when they come from people who have the influence to push their ideas through regardless.

But that is rarely aimed at someone who would be all that phased. And at least in my environment, the less technical members of the team would often easily recognise and kill those bad ideas without any need for me to pick them apart. More often for me at least, it was people I respected with ideas I respected that got the tough responses, because they got my attention.

Back then, I didn't understand that this kind of harsh language was not taken as impersonal technical discussion aimed at helping to improve their ideas by "normal" people, but as intense personal criticism.

I hope I've improved in that respect, but I still far too often cringe at when I see my "old self" reflected in overly harsh responses that still seem to be well intended.

Re: Letter from Steve Wozniak to a high school student in Korea

#53
post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I found both types of examples you gave insulting. Obviously being called dumb is insulting, but being treated like a baby is too. What's so wrong with just saying "This should be changed because ___" "You should avoid doing something like this because __" ?

I always advise my staff to simply stick to the facts. Anything that can be disputed will be. This results in statements like: "I'd like this changed because I believe it's a mistake to use globals in this context" rather than "You're/It's wrong to put a global here" The difference is subtle, but important. It allows personal opinion to be used without the debate being personal.

I prefer a little explanation here.

"I've just had to track down bugs due to globals defined in this context when they don't need to be. If you use this approach it will save everyone a lot of time in the future."

Not confrontational, it's educational, and you're saying why it's wrong. Just saying "it's wrong" doesn't help if the original author didn't realize it was wrong at the time. If they did realize it was wrong and did it anyways, giving the full description just reminds them why they should go and do it the long way.

Re: Letter from Steve Wozniak to a high school student in Korea

#54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I always advise my staff to simply stick to the facts. Anything that can be disputed will be. This results in statements like: "I'd like this changed because I believe it's a mistake to use globals in this context" rather than "You're/It's wrong to put a global here" The difference is subtle, but important. It allows personal opinion to be used without the debate being personal.

That seems to be the direction I was looking for. It is subtle, but I see the difference. What I noticed in your example is two things: 1. The statement is framed as a personal viewpoint, rather than absolute truth/fact. 2. You not only state the problem, but also the intent or direction for a fix. I'll try to see if I can adopt something along those lines. Thanks.

It's important to acknowledge personal differences while trying to see them as separate from the people themselves. It's when the two are confused that problems arise.

If you ignore personal differences, or don't understand that they're opinions (albeit based on experience) you will fail.

That's therapy training for you :)

Re: Letter from Steve Wozniak to a high school student in Korea

#55

You are recognized by your own skills and good work, and you don‘t have to criticize others for not doing good work. Just worry about your own skills. Wozniak is a very technically brilliant guy, and I have the utmost level of respect for him. But the sentence I quoted above just shows that he's also a stereotypical "nerd" in a lot of ways [1], in the sense that he has a very poor understanding of how humans operate,…

I'm sure Woz has a fine understanding of "how humans operate", perhaps even better than you or I. He has worked with some of the most important individuals and companies in this industry. Woz is not dumb. His point was that he chose to adopt this mindset on purpose. He'd rather be the "average person joking all the time than a powerful businessman stressing over work everyday". By not calling out Jobs for screwing hi…

His point was that he chose to adopt this mindset on purpose.

Exactly. Wozniak and Jobs weren't just opposites. Wozniak is the anti-Jobs.

And it makes me wonder if the deliberate personal philosophy Wozniak assumed ever got under Jobs' skin. Obviously it would have been unintentional but could have bothered Jobs more than we can imagine.

Re: Letter from Steve Wozniak to a high school student in Korea

#56

You are recognized by your own skills and good work, and you don‘t have to criticize others for not doing good work. Just worry about your own skills. Wozniak is a very technically brilliant guy, and I have the utmost level of respect for him. But the sentence I quoted above just shows that he's also a stereotypical "nerd" in a lot of ways [1], in the sense that he has a very poor understanding of how humans operate,…

If you take it by the numbers (which is a bad way, but still) then Woz definitely came out ahead by avoiding a confrontation over the $5000. I'd say he played it pretty smart if that was his intention, but I think it is obvious that it wasn't, he just isn't that kind of person. It speaks volumes about Jobs though.

Re: Letter from Steve Wozniak to a high school student in Korea

#57
I didn't know anything about computer languages except—a friend of mine had gone to MIT and, while he was there, he would Xerox pages out of books that were good topics, and he had sent me a lot of pages back from compiler design books.

I wonder if MIT knew about students sharing information with the outside world 40 years ago. If this copyright violation would have not happened, we'd be in a world without Apple computer, or at least Apple BASIC.

Re: Letter from Steve Wozniak to a high school student in Korea

#58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you're not a manager, it's not your job to criticize others. You can privately let the manager know why you think there was a failure, but that's just your opinion, the manager may see it differently. If you are a manager, while it is your job to occasionally criticize performance, it is never your job to criticize people. Further, if someone is "fucking up constantly," it's your fault. Do they understand the requ…

Wow, that sounds like a terrible work environment. I much prefer a self-regulating team. It is much less stressful in my opinion to be called out on problems quickly, and by your peers, than to have to have a "talk" with your manager, perhaps weeks or months after there was a problem that you could easily have fixed. I've seen more dysfunctional teams from this type of attitude than I've seen functional ones. If a te…

I think saying 'a terrible work environment' is a bit of a stretch. The important part of criticism is that it's taken constructively - often it's best done between peers, but sometimes it's best done with (good) managers.

I think a key issue is that coworkers can be awesome workers, but HORRIBLE at critique. It's a skill that people aren't always good at. I know I could be better. A good manager will be great at this, and it's often best to let the best person at this do the talking. Managers can also be great as go betweens, and councillors for both sides, so that hatchets don't get buried directly into coworker skulls.

That said, the best teams manage themselves.

Re: Letter from Steve Wozniak to a high school student in Korea

#59

You are recognized by your own skills and good work, and you don‘t have to criticize others for not doing good work. Just worry about your own skills. Wozniak is a very technically brilliant guy, and I have the utmost level of respect for him. But the sentence I quoted above just shows that he's also a stereotypical "nerd" in a lot of ways [1], in the sense that he has a very poor understanding of how humans operate,…

I'm sure Woz has a fine understanding of "how humans operate", perhaps even better than you or I. He has worked with some of the most important individuals and companies in this industry. Woz is not dumb. His point was that he chose to adopt this mindset on purpose. He'd rather be the "average person joking all the time than a powerful businessman stressing over work everyday". By not calling out Jobs for screwing hi…

haha, it appears to me that woz was a better Buddhist that Jobs.
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