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Map Shows Where 220mph Trains Would Go in the U.S.

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Re: Map Shows Where 220mph Trains Would Go in the U.S.

#51

Historically I have been a big supporter of trains in the US. Recently, I have decided that the cost may not be worth the benefit if future technology is considered. The future is going to involve self driving busses, self driving cars, self driving trucks etc. The primary thing I enjoy about the train is the additional space. Fundmantally, that is the problem with trains too. If they jammed people on a train the way…

Trains are substantially more efficient to move freight. I don't think that self driving trucks will be able to compete insofar as bulk movement of freight goes.

The freight rail system in the US is actually pretty good, and virtually all freight doesn't need bullet-train speed.

Re: Map Shows Where 220mph Trains Would Go in the U.S.

#52
post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's only partially true-- Amtrak owns the Northeast corridor. Amtrak's only innovation in forty years (!) on the NEC is Acela, a "high speed" offering that is marginally faster than regular service (shorter times mainly because Acela makes fewer stops) and is more expensive than private air shuttle travel along the same routes.

Ah yes, I've heard of that train. It doesn't go any faster than 100mph does it?

Acela goes up to 150mph. Even the Pittsburgh-Philly Keystone Line breaks 100mph.

Re: Map Shows Where 220mph Trains Would Go in the U.S.

#53
It's fun to look at, but the trip from LA to New York would be about 13 hours -- and that's ignoring the time stopped at stations and assuming you can go 220mph the entire trip.

New York to some other city would be even worse. For example, New York to Seattle and you're approaching something like 20 hours.

I really love trains for short trips (NY to DC), but I just don't see the actual demand these long distance lines. Maybe we should just try and fix airport security and intra-urban mass transit instead.

Re: Map Shows Where 220mph Trains Would Go in the U.S.

#54
post #14

So there's this puzzle that people enjoy thinking about regarding space travel. Say that it finally becomes possible to reach a planet of a nearby star. It's a new technology that enables it, and we can build a spaceship that will support several generations of people during the trip. Maybe it takes 500 years to get there. Well, 500 years is a long time. It's not as if our technological development will stop in the m…

There is always some amount of risk that a new technology will make all your investment worthless. The most extant example of this is the US telephone system: billions invested to have a copper wire in every home which is pretty much useless now (and appears to be a reason why US operators charge such high rates). Countries like India and many African states are bypassing this investment in infrastructure by going di…

High speed Internet access whether DSL, cable, or ethernet requires "a copper wire in every home" [ok, fiber requires a glass wire, but it's still the same concept].

Why do you say copper wire is useles?

Re: Map Shows Where 220mph Trains Would Go in the U.S.

#55

Making Chicago a hub would be a nightmare. The city is already home to the worst highway gridlock in the US. The hub should be shifted further west to help create another metro area, not to just add to an existing one that happens to also be very corrupt.

Does anyone else see something wrong with Chicago being the central hub (specifically regarding our president's past history in Chicago)? Sure, it's not exactly like it would have been if Bush (W) proposed a large rail hub in Crawford, but Chicago isn't exactly the only choice for such a hub either. In fact, why not avoid a large hub?

Re: Map Shows Where 220mph Trains Would Go in the U.S.

#56
post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The reality is not quite that simple, you need to consider the energy required by and environmental impact of building out and maintaining a high speed rail infrastructure. Rail efficiency is also highly sensitive to occupancy, a train carrying a small number of passengers could well be less efficient than transporting that number of people by auto. And cars are getting more fuel efficient as well And if the governme…

All these criticisms seem to apply equally to roads and bridges

Yup, and rail is much more durable, much less resource-intensive, and has much less of a negative effect on the environment than roads (in typical usage, a single dual-track rail line carries the same number of people as 10-20 lanes of highway)...

Re: Map Shows Where 220mph Trains Would Go in the U.S.

#57

So there's this puzzle that people enjoy thinking about regarding space travel. Say that it finally becomes possible to reach a planet of a nearby star. It's a new technology that enables it, and we can build a spaceship that will support several generations of people during the trip. Maybe it takes 500 years to get there. Well, 500 years is a long time. It's not as if our technological development will stop in the m…

The fuel efficiency of a vehicle rolling on rigid steel wheels on a rigid steel track is FAR higher than that of a vehicle rolling on pneumatic tires on asphalt.

The number I have seen quoted is that a train can move 1 ton 400 miles using 1 gallon of diesel.

Re: Map Shows Where 220mph Trains Would Go in the U.S.

#58
post #35

I'm all for a HSR system and I think it sounds AWESOME, but I have doubts if it would ever catch on. HSR would have to compete with the current airline system. If it's cheaper, more convenient to ride, and the time required to travel is comparable to airline, it could catch on, but as it stands I'm unsure if there's enough room for it to survive while competing against the airline system. Commercial airlines travel a…

I agree with your reasoning but it's a bit deeper than "airplanes are 2x the speed of trains so therefore they are faster", and not just because airplanes fly a lot of extra distance for ATC reasons.

At major city airports you easily lose 2 hours with security, taxing around the airport in the airplane doing 5 mph, and boarding/deplaning. Not to mention any weather delays, and good luck if you have luggage.

Plus, most airports are not that close to the city center. Most train stations in the city center. I'm most familiar with NYC, but I can walk from my office to 3 train stations (Penn Station, PATH, Grand Central) in less than 15 minutes. The 3 airports are all an hour in a subway or 30 minutes in a $50 cab ride away. The airports are also more subject to traffic. The last time I flew to Florida from NYC, I spent more time on the ground getting to JFK, waiting to get on the plane, and waiting to take off to NYC than in the air.

With all that said, 200-300 mile trips make a lot of sense by train. Boston->NYC, NYC->DC by train make a lot more sense than airplanes even in the best weather. When the planes get slowed down by bad weather, forget it. Even Boston->DC by train makes a lot of sense, even today with our relatively crappy high speed rail.

I imagine a train up and down the east coast of florida, or the California coast with slightly better technology would do similiarly well.

But a train from NYC to Chicago or Denver makes no sense. And definitely not for NYC to LA. As soon as the portion of the flight cruising increases beyond an hour or two, it just kills a train.

Re: Map Shows Where 220mph Trains Would Go in the U.S.

#59
post #35

I'm all for a HSR system and I think it sounds AWESOME, but I have doubts if it would ever catch on. HSR would have to compete with the current airline system. If it's cheaper, more convenient to ride, and the time required to travel is comparable to airline, it could catch on, but as it stands I'm unsure if there's enough room for it to survive while competing against the airline system. Commercial airlines travel a…

[deleted]

Re: Map Shows Where 220mph Trains Would Go in the U.S.

#60
post #52
post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ah yes, I've heard of that train. It doesn't go any faster than 100mph does it?

Acela goes up to 150mph. Even the Pittsburgh-Philly Keystone Line breaks 100mph.

That's not too shabby at all.
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