Live data from Hacker News

Stupid, Stupid xBox

ilikecode.wordpress.com

51–60 of 185 posts

Re: Stupid, Stupid xBox

#51
post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn't this how the console market works? You lose money on console units, but make it back in licensing? Or are you saying that, taking licensing into account, the Xbox still lost money for Microsoft? 2005 and 2007 were a long time ago. Do you know of more recent numbers?

The overall division really did lose $4 billion that year. In 2011 they made $1.3 billion. Overall, I think they're about at break-even for the program since inception.

But in the years that followed that same division has made over $3 billion just in Halo game sales alone.

Re: Stupid, Stupid xBox

#52

I don't know if people on HN are following the rumors related to the next-gen consoles, but it looks like MS is going to be addressing at least one of these issues: UI fluidity. If the rumors are accurate, then MS has a multi-pronged approach to making the UI a lot more fluid. While the 360 reserved 32MB of RAM for the OS, rumors suggest that MS is reserving 3GB (out of a total of 8GB). Furthermore, MS is apparently…

The arguments he is making are about UX, not UI fluidity.

Re: Stupid, Stupid xBox

#53

After letting the article percolate for a bit. Just think about what the industry will look like in 10 years. - internet game distribution is going to change content delivery just like it changed VHF/DVD rental stores. The game stores will be gone, walmart will not display/sell them. - those who can provide a pipeline like netflix for games are going to destroy the current establishment. It will likely be worse than…

The dawning horror for the console vendors is that the change is already happening around them and on every iPhone, iPad, Samsung, Android, etc device. These already have digital-only distribution. These already have very high-quality GPU's that push almost as many triangles as an xBox 360 or PS3, and are on a faster product-iteration-cycle. Some of these - iPad3 and Samsung Galaxy Tab's - already have higher-resolution screens than your 60" HDTV and many people are using them more hours per day and spending more dollars per device than they ever did on consoles. Yikes, if I were still in the console biz, I would push like hell to move a little faster than updating hardware every 7-8 years and doing poorly with software.

Re: Stupid, Stupid xBox

#54
post #51
post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The overall division really did lose $4 billion that year. In 2011 they made $1.3 billion. Overall, I think they're about at break-even for the program since inception.

But in the years that followed that same division has made over $3 billion just in Halo game sales alone.

They also lost more money in years prior. I think they're in the black since inception, but not by much.

Re: Stupid, Stupid xBox

#55
post #15

The modern round of game systems are quite flawed from a UI/UX perspective, as the author here points out. My Playstation 3 forces me to do various updates to watch Netflix (which is what I use the system for 90% of the time). All of the systems ask you to input text in a super-awkward way to setup various aspects of the system (on-screen keyboards really suck for typing in complex WPA2 passwords). The XBox 360 is th…

Seriously, the fact that I can't plug in an old keyboard to the PS3 for the occasional password or search drives me nuts.

Unless they've changed something you should be able to use a keyboard with the PS3. I used to have a wireless USB keyboard/mouse that I used with my PS3 for web browsing.

Re: Stupid, Stupid xBox

#56

I've been shouting this for as long as I could: Once Apple (or maybe an Android company or even someone new) enters this market in earnest, Microsoft/Sony/Nintendo should take watch. Apple has the infrastructure to deliver games, has tiny/medium/large touch devices that can connect via bluetooth in many customers hands (which already play games), and many many game developers familiar with the platforms. Every big st…

>If Apple can position the AppleTV as a console (maybe open it up to developers) or build something more along the lines of a traditional console, they will crush.

This opinion is pushed around a lot, however I cannot really see it happening, and I doubt Apple will ever pursue such a strategy.

For Apple to enter the console market, they would have to compete with the big boys, meaning if it can't push 100 million polygons at 1080p it will never get great adoption (who will want develop for a console with graphics out of 2005, and who will buy a console that doesn't have Call of Halo 7?). This means they have to create a modern console platform AND sell it at the price of an iPad. I'm not sure how the ghost of Jobs will take the news once he finds out Apple is selling hardware at a loss.

Next I doubt they would have anything to gain other than "you can now play CoD on the Apple ecosystem." They would lose money on the hardware, they wouldn't make much on the software if App Store profits mean anything (http://articles.businessinsider.com/2011-07-11/tech/29964545... reports they may have made ~$300 million). It just doesn't seem like a good idea finically. As far as the game console ecosystem goes I don't think MS/Sony/Nintendo will ever have to worry about Apple.

All in all, I am not really convinced that the App Store market will work for any of them. I strongly believe only Valve has the resources (and direction* ) to transition into the digital delivery era, at the expense of introducing yet another company into my living room. Still the question is how do you effectively deliver a magic box capable of playing Call of Duty at 1080p at the price of current consoles sustainably/profitably. Vavle's success so far doesn't worry about hardware. Their customers are either willing to spend $1000+ on a gaming every couple years, or just suck it up and blame Dell/HP for why their laptop can't play CoD.

* If Sony got their shit together, you are right, I believe they would take over the living room. They almost did it with PS2, and if the PS2 had come a bit later, or the PS3 was able to sell as much they might have done it. I think Sony could have built an Apple level brand loyalty (in the sense of having a Sony Computer, Phone, Laptop, Console) and (if they got much better at software development), they could have built a Sony store to manage your content on all those devices (after all they already own most of the movies and music). In another universe Sony may have been a Google + Hardware.

Re: Stupid, Stupid xBox

#57
post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn't this how the console market works? You lose money on console units, but make it back in licensing? Or are you saying that, taking licensing into account, the Xbox still lost money for Microsoft? 2005 and 2007 were a long time ago. Do you know of more recent numbers?

I'm saying they're still losing money. The "lose money on units, make some back on software" model doesn't make economic sense anymore. The second link has recent numbers.

> I'm saying they're still losing money.

In what world? The Xbox has been turning a profit for most of its life. AFAIK it lost money its first couple of years (primarily due to the fact it was rushed to market), and since then it has been largely propping up Microsoft's entertainment division, which otherwise would be bleeding like mad. (The division lost money last year not because the Xbox was unprofitable, but because it wasn't profitable enough to cover Windows Phone's tab as well as its own.)

Re: Stupid, Stupid xBox

#58
post #20

He has a massive point -- " Why can’t I write a game for xBox tomorrow using $100 worth of tools and my existing Windows laptop and test it on my home xBox or at my friends’ houses ". I am wiling to guess that game development will follow the path of app stores. Consoles like the OUYA [1] will start to take over. The cycle from development to distribution will be cut by orders of magnitude. xBox needs to get on it an…

Steam boxes should also be pretty open like that. Obviously you can already make a "PC game" that can run on a Steam box but, Newell promised the approval process of Steam will almost completely disappear in the future, so it should be even easier for game developers to put their games on Steam, and then having them distributed to any device that runs Steam.

I'm sorry I didn't mention Valve's steam as a competitor in the post, I am very very excited to see what they come up with. I <3 Valve. I do think Apple and Android have a little more indie developer momentum right now, but not sure how that will play out long-term.

Re: Stupid, Stupid xBox

#59
post #5
post #2

I think it's funny how Nat capitalizes "xBox". The official capitalization that was finally settled on was "Xbox". It annoys the marketing people to no end when people capitalize it wrong. I always thought xBox looked cooler.

It totally does. I always thought the official was "XBOX"; "Xbox" looks like the way someone uninformed would write it or that it was an afterthought of a product.

Using correct English capitalization rules makes someone "uninformed" now?

Re: Stupid, Stupid xBox

#60
post #53

After letting the article percolate for a bit. Just think about what the industry will look like in 10 years. - internet game distribution is going to change content delivery just like it changed VHF/DVD rental stores. The game stores will be gone, walmart will not display/sell them. - those who can provide a pipeline like netflix for games are going to destroy the current establishment. It will likely be worse than…

The dawning horror for the console vendors is that the change is already happening around them and on every iPhone, iPad, Samsung, Android, etc device. These already have digital-only distribution. These already have very high-quality GPU's that push almost as many triangles as an xBox 360 or PS3, and are on a faster product-iteration-cycle. Some of these - iPad3 and Samsung Galaxy Tab's - already have higher-resolut…

well, xbox 360 kinda had digital distribution since it's launch.
Post reply on HN