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Email transparency

stripe.com

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Re: Email transparency

#51

Post by pc »

dsl wrote: post #46
jsaxton86 wrote: post #19

"We use Gmail for email and Google Groups for lists." "What we have today works pretty well for our current size—around 45 people." So if I can manage to get the Google authentication credentials for just one of Stripe's 45 employees, I can get access to the vast majority of Stripe's email? I hope they require two factor authentication.

Yikes. I was just skimming HN before a meeting to talk about how we are going to handle payment flow. Literally just put a huge question mark next to Stripe on my list now.

A compromised employee machine will always cause problems. (Just look at Google, the New York Times, etc.) We're obviously careful about what goes in email, and I think the open-by-default policy largely makes the security properties of email clearer. (I.e., don't put sensitive material here.)

Re: Email transparency

#52

Post by hollerith »

jessaustin wrote: post #47
otterley wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Definitely in California, if not most states: "Every person who, knowing that any book, paper, record, instrument in writing, or other matter or thing, is about to be produced in evidence upon any trial, inquiry, or investigation whatever, authorized by law, willfully destroys or conceals the same, with intent thereby to prevent it from being produced, is guilty of a misdemeanor." (Cal. Pen. Code. S. 135)

(I'm asking for a friend.) What if the paperwork in question isn't being used in an investigation, but rather as a way of proving residence in a particular area for the purpose of receiving services provided in that area?

Pretty sure that the laws of all 50 states considers that to be fraud.

If the person committing the fraud is poor however or very young, the will to prosecute the fraud is often absent, but you cannot count on that.

For example, someone was prosecuted here in California for helping a friend without health insurance obtain medical care by trying to get the hospital to believe that his friend was him.

IANAL though.

Re: Email transparency

#53

Post by dsl »

Terretta wrote: post #35

Part of the issue around transparency is that email inbox silos may be the wrong tool for a collaborative and productive tech company. In general, email is now being seen (as often remarked by ShowHN MVPs) as To Do lists, and in a tech shop, multiple people have an interest in that process. This results in unenforceable policies about To: vs Cc: and unwieldy threads you're never sure if you should delete the tail nes…

I remember during the late 90's early 2000's RT was used in almost every NOC because it was one of the few options available.

From the screenshots it looks like it hasn't gotten any better since then. Are you sure your positive experiences aren't just from lack of exposure to newer tools?

Re: Email transparency

#54

Post by Spooky23 »

jzieger2 wrote: post #16
greggman wrote: post #3

I've known companies that had pretty good email policies....until they got sued and every email debate was turned into the evidence that they knew X or considered Y or thought about Z and were therefore guilty. :-(

Hi (I'm Stripe's lawyer). Litigation discovery is something that any company needs to think about when crafting its email policy. But whether an email goes to a few individual recipients or to a broader list won't impact whether it needs to be disclosed in discovery. The seemingly private email between two or three co-workers will almost always persist in someone's inbox for a very long time, and ultimately be discov…

I would be more worried about things like personnel complaints, or matters that I ignorant of, but was "informed" via email.

Although explicitly making everything public is a novel way to keep bad behavior at bay.

Re: Email transparency

#55

Post by gertef »

quasque wrote: post #24
pc86 wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> but payment alleviates conscience. That's disgusting.

"That's disgusting." I agree. This was years ago - I wouldn't do it now as I have financial freedom and (probably) a higher standard of morals. But back then, keeping my employers satisfied so my sole source of income was safe, was a large motivator.

Have you notified his wife and apologized for lying to her? If not, you are still hurting her today.

Re: Email transparency

#56

Post by quasque »

gertef wrote: post #55
quasque wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"That's disgusting." I agree. This was years ago - I wouldn't do it now as I have financial freedom and (probably) a higher standard of morals. But back then, keeping my employers satisfied so my sole source of income was safe, was a large motivator.

Have you notified his wife and apologized for lying to her? If not, you are still hurting her today.

No, and I'm not going to. I can't see how it would help anyone involved, especially several years on.

Anyway I don't even know who she is, or if they're even married any more.

Re: Email transparency

#57

Post by Terretta »

dsl wrote: post #53
Terretta wrote: post #35

Part of the issue around transparency is that email inbox silos may be the wrong tool for a collaborative and productive tech company. In general, email is now being seen (as often remarked by ShowHN MVPs) as To Do lists, and in a tech shop, multiple people have an interest in that process. This results in unenforceable policies about To: vs Cc: and unwieldy threads you're never sure if you should delete the tail nes…

I remember during the late 90's early 2000's RT was used in almost every NOC because it was one of the few options available. From the screenshots it looks like it hasn't gotten any better since then. Are you sure your positive experiences aren't just from lack of exposure to newer tools?

I wouldn't confuse the interface with the engine. Under the hood, the advances have been significant over the years.

Best Practical isn't a web design shop, but you can certainly spend time making this pretty if that's a good use of your time.

As noted in a sibling comment, we do try new alternatives constantly. Haven't found anything else that comes close for the seamless email integration, ticket volume, and workflow flexibility we need.

Also as noted in sibling comments, much newer companies than us, tech stars you've heard of, have found RT useful quite recently.

Re: Email transparency

#58

Post by rsingel »

jzieger2 wrote: post #40
UnoriginalGuy wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Random question relating to both e-mail and the law... So everyone puts these signatures/disclaimers on their e-mail now which say (paraphrasing): > This message is confidential. It may also be privileged or otherwise protected by work product immunity or other legal rules. If you have received it by mistake, please let us know by e-mail reply and delete it from your system; you may not copy this message or disclose…

I think people do these things mainly to deal with inadvertent disclosure (e.g., an incorrectly addressed email) or further downstream distribution of an email. The idea is to have some indicator that the original sender meant the communication to remain in confidence (which may be required to maintain, for example, attorney client privilege, or to preserve trade secret protection). When they are affixed automaticall…

Hey John, that's pretty much what I found when I did an explainer for Wired about them:

“You have no obligation to obey the disclaimer if you decide to read a misdirected email, send it to your friends, or send it to a Wired reporter,” says Susan Lyon, a privacy and data security attorney for Perkins Coie. “You don’t have to worry about that.”

http://www.wired.com/magazine/2010/12/pr_burningquestion_leg...

Re: Email transparency

#59

Post by ams6110 »

mkopinsky wrote: post #49
noahl wrote: post #33

I'm curious about your thoughts on mailing lists vs. private newsgroups. I think of email and news as just two different ways of sharing MIME messages, with the difference that email is sent to specific people and newsgroups are stored on a server and can be archived and made (semi-)public. I realize that newsgroups have received much, much less attention than email recently, and it may just be that there isn't enoug…

Can you send an email and cc a newsgroup?

Assuming you're talking about an nntp newsgroup then yes, if you're running a mail-to-news gateway.

Re: Email transparency

#60

Post by yummyfajitas »

UnoriginalGuy wrote: post #38
jzieger2 wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hi (I'm Stripe's lawyer). Litigation discovery is something that any company needs to think about when crafting its email policy. But whether an email goes to a few individual recipients or to a broader list won't impact whether it needs to be disclosed in discovery. The seemingly private email between two or three co-workers will almost always persist in someone's inbox for a very long time, and ultimately be discov…

Random question relating to both e-mail and the law... So everyone puts these signatures/disclaimers on their e-mail now which say (paraphrasing): > This message is confidential. It may also be privileged or otherwise protected by work product immunity or other legal rules. If you have received it by mistake, please let us know by e-mail reply and delete it from your system; you may not copy this message or disclose…

Do these things actually have a legal purpose/meaning?

"This is not an offer to buy or sell securities."

"This is not legal advice."

These are legally useful because rather than enforcing a contract, they explicitly disclaim one.

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