Earlier quoted context omitted.
I'm a few hundred miles away myself, but in a border state. How far into the US interior do they ship it?
I can buy glass bottled Mexican coke in Missouri. You don't get much further from a border than that.
Neat.
Supermarket vegetables now 5-40% lower in nutrients than 50 years ago
51–60 of 85 posts
Re: Supermarket vegetables now 5-40% lower in nutrients than 50 years ago
#52Earlier quoted context omitted.
Right, but unless they specifically source it from Mexico (as that link seems to for that outlet), it might be Canadian Coke, which also has sugar and which you can also buy in glass bottles.
Oh cool. I think it says made in Mexico on the bottle, though.
I think that's a pretty good indication of origin. :)
Re: Supermarket vegetables now 5-40% lower in nutrients than 50 years ago
#53Earlier quoted context omitted.
Well, there are two types of corn syrup - plain old "corn syrup" ala Karo, and high fructose corn syrup, which is a very common sweetener in processed foods. (HFCS is also, for some reason, a bit of a nutritional boogeyman for a lot of people. There's no actual evidence that consuming X calories of it is any worse for people than consuming X calories of sugar or honey, but it's the new "dioxin" in some circles.)
If not, then why do nutritionists, athletes, diabetics, and bodybuilders favor sugar instead of HFCS?
Because its a marker for a junk food, but not literally the problem.
Re: Supermarket vegetables now 5-40% lower in nutrients than 50 years ago
#54Its not surprising that 60 years after the green revolution ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Green_Revolution ) that we would have washed trace minerals from the soil of our most productive farmland, which produces most of our vegetables, resulting in them having lower mineral content. Its also not surprising that nitrogen fed fruits and vegetables bred for size and weight would be larger and so contain diluted mineral…
It doesn't take much land to grow a significant amount of food This is very true!!! Although I live on ten acres, I only have a relatively small garden (about 20x40') and it is still capable of producing much more than my family can consume unless I preserve a lot of it. A single pumpkin seed for example, can result in almost 100 lbs of pumpkins even if you don't take care of them. They just grow like weeds! Tomatoes…
I have 18 strawberry plants ready to go into a new patch, nice and big, so they'll propagate outward into twice as many... :D
I just moved to a house on 7 acres, so I tilled, manured and fenced off 25' * 25' for vegetables, but... found myself wanting more room for corn, so I tilled 25' * 50' more, plus the strawberry patch.
If we spent as much time as we do on our lawns on vegetables, every house would easily be self sustaining for fruits and veggies!
Re: Supermarket vegetables now 5-40% lower in nutrients than 50 years ago
#55Earlier quoted context omitted.
The issue here is that typical vegetables in your average supermarket have lower nutritional value than they did a generation ago, even though almost everything else in this society is getting better. A related issue is that processed foods are essentially a combination of corn, soybeans & sugar. Bottom line: people are eating worse food, but they are choosing to do so, not being forced. Growing your own vegetables i…
* people are eating worse food, but they are choosing to do so, not being forced. * Really? Try finding a Coke with real sugar, and try getting a week worth of food without any corn syrup in them. My understanding is that the corn industry is basically forcing their products down our throats by lobbying the hell out of Washington.
It's the government that has the violence monopoly. Industries are lobbying for governments to use its power do certain things. I believe corn syrup is cheaper because of government subsidies/tariffs/taxes makes corn syrup cheaper than sugar in the US.
Consumers are rarely forced to buy soda. But the producers are using corn syrup over sugar because the government has put it's gun to the head of the market.
Even in the US you can find Coke with sugar if you are prepared to pay the price. Government is the reason it is so expensive and hard to find. If you believe positive "change" is coming to American sugar tariffs with the new administration I think you will be disappointed.
Re: Supermarket vegetables now 5-40% lower in nutrients than 50 years ago
#56Earlier quoted context omitted.
* people are eating worse food, but they are choosing to do so, not being forced. * Really? Try finding a Coke with real sugar, and try getting a week worth of food without any corn syrup in them. My understanding is that the corn industry is basically forcing their products down our throats by lobbying the hell out of Washington.
Which products contain corn syrup? I didn't know that it existed until now, but I can't think of anything I eat that could contain corn syrup.
That's the rub. It doesn't occur to most Americans how many products contain corn syrup. Wander through any conventional supermarket in America. Study the ingredients list for whatever product you have in your hand. The list of ingredients is printed in a small, sans-serif font below or next to the nutrition chart.
Notice the corn syrup in condiments: ketchup, salad dressing, peanut butter, jam, some pickles and mustards, etc. Notice the corn syrup in yogurts, ice creams, and frozen desserts. Notice the corn syrup in fruit drinks and flavored milk drinks. Notice the corn syrup in breakfast cereals and brand-name hearty-looking breads. Notice the corn syrup in brand-name cookies and crackers (Ritz, Wheat Thins, IIRC). Notice the corn syrup in canned pie fillings. Notice the corn syrup spaghetti sauces. Notice the corn syrup in canned soups.
Any food not located at a far outside aisle is likely to contain corn syrup. If a food has a brand name and it comes in a bottle, jar, tub, or box, it probably contains corn syrup. If a food comes in a can and it's not plain vegetables, it probably contains corn syrup.
I kind of exaggerate here, but not much. I notice that factory producers have been eliminating corn syrup from some foods in the past year or two. So, you might see "cane juice" or sugar in the ingredients list, instead of corn syrup. Cane juice is the new euphemism for sugar.
One of my Russian-American friends said about ten years ago, "I khate American food. Too sweet." It's "too sweet" because so many products contain sweeteners. If you're accustomed to American food, you probably don't notice the sweetness. Therefore, it wouldn't occur to you that it contains corn syrup (or sugar).
Re: Supermarket vegetables now 5-40% lower in nutrients than 50 years ago
#57Nutritionists have been saying this for years. This is why the very high end multi vitamins ($50-100 per month!) include such a wide variety of ingredients, and the does is somewhere between 9-12 capsules PER DAY.
Examples:
Life Extension Foundation: http://www.lef.org/Vitamins-Supplements/Item01335/Life-Exten...
NSI: http://www.vitacost.com/NSI-Synergy-Supreme-Multi-Vitamin-Ve...
Re: Supermarket vegetables now 5-40% lower in nutrients than 50 years ago
#58"The Omnivore's Dilemma" is a great book about this. One thing I learned there is that if you buy a strawberry flavored something that lists "natural flavorings" on it, that doesn't mean it has any strawberry in it. "Natural" just means the material originates in nature, not that the actual molecules are natural. Material from corn chemically processed into something that tastes (barely) remininscent of strawberry is…
Perfumes and food flavors are concocted in the same factories in New Jersey by the same chemists. In other words, food flavors are food perfumes. Factory processing of mediocre quality farm products can create a food which is not particularly appetizing. Adding "natural flavors" or "artificial flavors" makes this brand-name food smell yummy. And adding some colors makes it look yummy.
"Natural flavors" are made from plants or animals using old-fashioned processes. "Artificial flavors" are made from 1) plants or animals using newfangled processes or 2) icky substances such as petroleum or coal tar. "Natural strawberry flavor" is made from a tree (birch? willow? can't remember), not from strawberries.
I'm pretty sure I learned these factoids around ten years ago from a book called Mauve, about the history of fabric dyes, of all things. Or some of this might be found in Fast Food Nation.
BTW, my aroma memory tells me that if you slap on some Polo cologne, the scent that remains after a few hours is "blueberry flavor" from Betty Crocker muffin mix.
Re: Supermarket vegetables now 5-40% lower in nutrients than 50 years ago
#59Earlier quoted context omitted.
Sodas in Europe, including Coke, are made with sugar. Europe doesn't have the massive supply of cheap HFCS that the US does.
This is true in most of the world; HFCS's popularity in the US is due to federal subsidies making it cheaper than sugar.
Don't forget sugar tariffs. If the sugar lobby was not in bed with the corn lobby to keep cheap caribbean and south american sugar out of the US market the price advantage enjoyed by HFCS would not be a significant factor. [For the record, there are reasons other than enhancing sweetness to use HFCS but if sugar costs were close to parity with HFCS it would fall from the second or third ingredient in many processed foods down towards the bottom of the list doewn near "natural and artificial flavorings", etc.]
Re: Supermarket vegetables now 5-40% lower in nutrients than 50 years ago
#60Earlier quoted context omitted.
If not, then why do nutritionists, athletes, diabetics, and bodybuilders favor sugar instead of HFCS?
Vlad, that's an un-sourced argument from authority. (And particularly unconvincing authorities, in the case of athletes and body-builders, who have been known to jump on a lot of wild and often harmful nutritional fads.)
That was the point--your arguments are unsourced. :)