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Wisdom from Psychopaths?

scientificamerican.com

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Re: Wisdom from Psychopaths?

#51

Post by michaelochurch »

chii wrote: post #16
Zenst wrote: post #14

A very nice read and if anything too short, want to read more. The ability to abstract oneself from the problem in a way that enables you to think about the problem is certainly something many would wish to be able to do better in at least one area in there lives. I find it easy to handle most things but anything personal, well I just end up like most and think about every negative permuation more than resolving the…

> When a bank reposses a house do they send in councelors and break the news over a hot beverage, no they do it in a letter and with that are about as cold as any psycopath could ever come up with. interesting that you mention this, because a "bank", or in general, a corporation can be considered a psychopath. If you watch the documentary "The Corporation" (freely available on thepiratebay), it shows you the criteria…

the CEO/chair/president/etc is legally bound to do this.

No, that's an excuse.

CEOs aren't allowed to steal from shareholders by, e.g., making the CEO's political campaign or mansion a company project. That is illegal. However, CEOs have the legal right to prioritize the long-term health of the company, which they can define to include ethical decency and environmental impact.

Re: Wisdom from Psychopaths?

#52

Post by michaelochurch »

hayksaakian wrote: post #4
Xcelerate wrote: post #2

I find psychopaths incredibly interesting. Probably because I recognize that I am about the furthest thing from one. I incessantly worry about the future and the consequences of what I'm currently doing. I always wonder what people are thinking, what they are thinking about others, and what they are thinking about me. It takes me 50 minutes to type a short email because I'm constantly playing out the scenarios of how…

is there a term for the opposite of psychopaths? why is intense concern for what others think of you and how you react considered normal?

I'm an anti-psychopath, and most people wouldn't consider me empathetic, because I have such a moral extremism about me.

Actually, I think of psychopaths as lawful evil, so the opposite is chaotic good. Chaotic good tend to have strong empathy but a sort of moral extremism/pathological honesty that can override it. In fact, they're willing to be disliked if they believe they're doing good for others or the world.

The chaotic-good anti-psychopath is the anti-authoritarian who insists on Living in Truth (Vaclav Havel's concept) whereas psychopaths revel in manipulation and lies.

Re: Wisdom from Psychopaths?

#53

Post by rthomas6 »

dschiptsov wrote: post #23
barry-cotter wrote: post #3

The following review article by gwern gives a much better overview of psychopathy. http://lesswrong.com/lw/fzy/notes_on_psychopathy/ If the Scientific American article is representative of the book the world would probably have been better off had it never been written. For psychopaths other people are means, not ends. If wrecking your life will get them a more pleasant afternoon with no/small chance of danger to the…

This is just bunch of words. la-la-la. practice at lying, cheating and stealing - this requires lot of self-control, which is considered a virtue. They are ruthless because to them other people are objects - this is an emotion management, another virtue. They are not focused on any long term goal. Their focus is very much on the now - and this is called spontaneity, a top of Maslow hierarchy. So, you call it wrong?)…

It doesn't matter if it's an extreme end of a spectrum of human behaviors. The words are still just as true, and the actions just as alien to normal people. Just like all other personality disorders.

Re: Wisdom from Psychopaths?

#54

Post by Zenst »

theorique wrote: post #34
jos3000 wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a very naive generalisation, but, as far as I understand, psychopaths can be very good at assessing other people's mental state, but do not /feel/ it like most people do. People on the autistic spectrum find it very difficult to recognise what other people are feeling.

That's a good and correct way of explaining it in a few words. Of course, there is nuance, but it gets the point across. Psychopaths observe but don't feel or care . Autistics are handicapped in their observations, although they may feel and/or care.

Very true as autisim which aspergers is part of spectrum wise are classified as learning disabilities and with that mean that the capacity to empathise is there, just not as quick at learning those aspects. A psycopath on the other hand can clearly see those connections and empathise, its just that they don't care too and do not see why they should. Think of it as comparing somebody with a broken leg who finds it hard to walk in contrast to somebody who has fully working legs but sees no point in walking.

Re: Wisdom from Psychopaths?

#55

Post by michaelochurch »

berntb wrote: post #50
michaelochurch wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Effective psychopaths never end up behind bars. They climb the corporate ladder. I've seen them in action and, as bad as they are for the companies they work in, you can't come away from seeing one in action without thinking, "Damn, he's good". The violent ones are the lower class of psychopaths, and most prisoners aren't psychopaths. The smarter, high-class psychopaths are the corporate back-stabbers. They learn how…

>>most prisoners aren't psychopaths " In a typical prison population, about 20 percent of the inmates satisfy the Hare definition of a psychopath, but they are responsible for over half of all violent crime. " http://www.hare.org/links/saturday.html Your claim is true but it is an oversimplification. There is at least a factor of ten over representation, since 1-2% of the total population are psychopaths. Edit: Consi…

Your claim is true but it is an oversimplification. There is at least a factor of ten over representation, since 1-2% of the total population are psychopaths.

Many HN posters (including myself) have a genetic trait that makes them about 10 times as likely to commit a violent crime: the Y chromosome.

Re: Wisdom from Psychopaths?

#57

Post by baar »

chmike wrote: post #29
barry-cotter wrote: post #3

The following review article by gwern gives a much better overview of psychopathy. http://lesswrong.com/lw/fzy/notes_on_psychopathy/ If the Scientific American article is representative of the book the world would probably have been better off had it never been written. For psychopaths other people are means, not ends. If wrecking your life will get them a more pleasant afternoon with no/small chance of danger to the…

I think that their fundamental characteristic might be reduced to a very low emotional response. This explains their lack of empathy and lack of fear. The ruthlessness, charm and cold manipulator behavior are just by product resulting by the need and desire to reach their goal as any normal person have. The lack of empathy, fear and apparent consciousness make them more efficient but also less socially fit because th…

" they are deaf to other people's pain."

This is not really the case -- they just don't care. In fact, they often revel in other people's pain (e.g. torture is common for psychopath serial killers). This is not the case with, for instance, people who are "high" on the autistic spectrum.

Re: Wisdom from Psychopaths?

#58

Post by Udo »

We already idolize psychopaths. Ruthless CEO types and people who generate "success" by whatever means. This article goes one step further. Its author suggests that actually more of that is needed in today's society and sets out to interview psychopaths on how they solve problems. Turns out, they do it by employing deception and (sometimes non-physical) violence.

Even forgetting for a moment that we're actually soliciting murderers and rapists for advice on social situations, am I really the only one who has a problem with this? Is more callousness, more dishonesty, and more manipulation really what's missing from our society?

Re: Wisdom from Psychopaths?

#59

Post by illuminate »

gadders wrote: post #39
RyanMcGreal wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The other part of the article is the psychopaths' "relative indifference to setbacks" and their fearlessness. > “The thing about fear, or the way I understand fear, I suppose—because, to be honest, I don't think I've ever really felt it—is that most of the time it's completely unwarranted anyway. What is it they say? Ninety-nine percent of the things people worry about never happen. So what's the point? > “I think th…

They sound almost like Stoics - minimising fear of unknowns, living in the moment, muted emotional responses to setbacks.

There are parallels, certainly.
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