Keeping Safari a secret • Hacker News Board

Re: Keeping Safari a secret

#51

Post by robmcm » Fri, Jan 04, 2013, 9:16 AM UTC

markrages wrote: post #13

nsp wrote: post #6

Does anyone know why Apple stopped doing this(or stopped doing it as thoroughly)? With the possible exception of the original, sites have consistently reported visits from iOS/iPhone:iPad user agents (and claimed that the ip originated within apple) well before launch. Recent example: http://thenextweb.com/apple/2013/01/01/developers-begin-seei...

I'm guessing it's not a secret or surprise to anyone that Apple would work on a new version of their operating system, nor that such operating system would include a browser. Safari, on the other hand, was unexpected.

Also, what were the chances that someone would even notice "Safari" in their log files had it of slipped out, vs some stats company who only work on iPhones noticing a new iPhone version.

Apple 10 years ago < Apple now

Re: Keeping Safari a secret

#52

Post by 1amzave » Fri, Jan 04, 2013, 9:45 AM UTC

sxp wrote: post #44

>Back around 1990, some forward-thinking IT person secured for Apple an entire Class A network of IP addresses. I found that fact to be the most interesting part of the article. The list of other Class A holders is also interesting: http://www.aturtschi.com/whois/neta1.html

Indeed -- also interesting are the results of an RDNS query on the first IP address listed in the article (17.149.160.49).

Re: Keeping Safari a secret

#53

Post by btipling » Fri, Jan 04, 2013, 10:07 AM UTC

donmelton wrote: post #42

duopixel wrote: post #40

I distinctly remember how the web dev world (myself included) groaned at the prospect of supporting another rendering engine. Gecko was clearly the best browser at the time, and the choice of KHTML seemed bizarre, to say the least. Even the intention of Apple building it's own web browser seemed weird, Apple had failed at a previous homebrewed browser (Cyberdog), why not just build on top of what Mozilla had already…

I would love to claim the foresight of planning for the iPhone all along. Alas, that was not the case. :) For any of us. We built our own browser because we didn't want to depend on another company for a critical application. We built our own browser engine because we wanted to use the technology in more things than a browser. We built that engine small and fast because Bertrand Serlet would have shot me if I had don…

That's twice you mentioned 'being shot' for failure. Sounds like a real culture of fear. I get the excitement for a chance to innovate the future of computing, but I sometimes get a sense of real Stockholm Syndrome from people at Apple. I personally don't want to work at a place where people are so afraid of failure. Look at Forstall's recent exit. All those years changing the world through computing, and at the end he gets a disgraceful boot out the door.

You can change the world from a growing startup without having to fear for your career at every turn. You can have fun without being afraid. Imagine that!

Re: Keeping Safari a secret

#54

Post by lmm » Fri, Jan 04, 2013, 10:14 AM UTC

duopixel wrote: post #40

I distinctly remember how the web dev world (myself included) groaned at the prospect of supporting another rendering engine. Gecko was clearly the best browser at the time, and the choice of KHTML seemed bizarre, to say the least. Even the intention of Apple building it's own web browser seemed weird, Apple had failed at a previous homebrewed browser (Cyberdog), why not just build on top of what Mozilla had already…

Konqueror was by some distance the best browser available at the time (even today there is Konqueror 3.2 functionality that I can't find in anything else), and the fact that they were able to keep it that way with about 5 devs total spoke to the quality of the code.

Re: Keeping Safari a secret

#55

Post by davvid » Fri, Jan 04, 2013, 10:29 AM UTC

sxp wrote: post #44

>Back around 1990, some forward-thinking IT person secured for Apple an entire Class A network of IP addresses. I found that fact to be the most interesting part of the article. The list of other Class A holders is also interesting: http://www.aturtschi.com/whois/neta1.html

Back around 1990, some forward-thinking IT person secured for Apple an entire Class A network of IP addresses.

Pixar has a large block too... I wonder if Steve had something to do with it?

Re: Keeping Safari a secret

#56

Post by donmelton » Fri, Jan 04, 2013, 10:41 AM UTC

btipling wrote: post #53

donmelton wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would love to claim the foresight of planning for the iPhone all along. Alas, that was not the case. :) For any of us. We built our own browser because we didn't want to depend on another company for a critical application. We built our own browser engine because we wanted to use the technology in more things than a browser. We built that engine small and fast because Bertrand Serlet would have shot me if I had don…

That's twice you mentioned 'being shot' for failure. Sounds like a real culture of fear. I get the excitement for a chance to innovate the future of computing, but I sometimes get a sense of real Stockholm Syndrome from people at Apple. I personally don't want to work at a place where people are so afraid of failure. Look at Forstall's recent exit. All those years changing the world through computing, and at the end…

That's just me being facetious. Don't read that much into it.

Apple was an excellent place to work and I had a great relationship with Scott, Bertrand, Avie and Steve. Nobody was going to shoot me. AFAIK. :)

Re: Keeping Safari a secret

#57

Post by bdash » Fri, Jan 04, 2013, 10:58 AM UTC

donmelton wrote: post #56

btipling wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's twice you mentioned 'being shot' for failure. Sounds like a real culture of fear. I get the excitement for a chance to innovate the future of computing, but I sometimes get a sense of real Stockholm Syndrome from people at Apple. I personally don't want to work at a place where people are so afraid of failure. Look at Forstall's recent exit. All those years changing the world through computing, and at the end…

That's just me being facetious. Don't read that much into it. Apple was an excellent place to work and I had a great relationship with Scott, Bertrand, Avie and Steve. Nobody was going to shoot me. AFAIK. :)

It's the underlings you have to watch out for.

Re: Keeping Safari a secret

#58

Post by StavrosK » Fri, Jan 04, 2013, 11:32 AM UTC

btipling wrote: post #53

donmelton wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would love to claim the foresight of planning for the iPhone all along. Alas, that was not the case. :) For any of us. We built our own browser because we didn't want to depend on another company for a critical application. We built our own browser engine because we wanted to use the technology in more things than a browser. We built that engine small and fast because Bertrand Serlet would have shot me if I had don…

That's twice you mentioned 'being shot' for failure. Sounds like a real culture of fear. I get the excitement for a chance to innovate the future of computing, but I sometimes get a sense of real Stockholm Syndrome from people at Apple. I personally don't want to work at a place where people are so afraid of failure. Look at Forstall's recent exit. All those years changing the world through computing, and at the end…

Or it was just a phrase!

Re: Keeping Safari a secret

#59

Post by officemonkey » Fri, Jan 04, 2013, 12:43 PM UTC

donmelton wrote: post #42

duopixel wrote: post #40

I distinctly remember how the web dev world (myself included) groaned at the prospect of supporting another rendering engine. Gecko was clearly the best browser at the time, and the choice of KHTML seemed bizarre, to say the least. Even the intention of Apple building it's own web browser seemed weird, Apple had failed at a previous homebrewed browser (Cyberdog), why not just build on top of what Mozilla had already…

I would love to claim the foresight of planning for the iPhone all along. Alas, that was not the case. :) For any of us. We built our own browser because we didn't want to depend on another company for a critical application. We built our own browser engine because we wanted to use the technology in more things than a browser. We built that engine small and fast because Bertrand Serlet would have shot me if I had don…

>We built our own [map app] because we didn't want to depend on another company for a critical application.

I believe, in retrospect, Apple's Maps.app will be considered in the same league as Safari. It may have had a rougher start than Safari, but I think it's a great program.

Re: Keeping Safari a secret

#60

Post by ryandvm » Fri, Jan 04, 2013, 1:23 PM UTC

michael_miller wrote: post #47

duopixel wrote: post #40

I distinctly remember how the web dev world (myself included) groaned at the prospect of supporting another rendering engine. Gecko was clearly the best browser at the time, and the choice of KHTML seemed bizarre, to say the least. Even the intention of Apple building it's own web browser seemed weird, Apple had failed at a previous homebrewed browser (Cyberdog), why not just build on top of what Mozilla had already…

I suspect the reason for choosing KHTML over Gecko may have been more political than anything else. Since Mozilla was the dominant non-IE browser at the time, it would be hard to justify any fork to the community without meaningfully given back. For example, Apple could go off into a cave and add touch handling support with momentum scrolling and GPU acceleration, and the Mozilla community would be absolutely furious…

> By comparison, KHTML was not really a serious project. It had a few developers, but nowhere near the scale of what Mozilla had.

You'd be surprised at the negative impact that a large number of developers can have on the quality of a software project.