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Waymo pulls over, calls cops on juvenile riders who had 'ghost gun"

latimes.com

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Re: Waymo pulls over, calls cops on juvenile riders who had 'ghost gun"

#51

Post by anon84873628 »

kstrauser wrote: post #48
anon84873628 wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Would you do any of those things in a regular taxi or subway car? Imagine the alternative headline saying the murderers used Waymo for their drive-by assassination. There is only one option for Waymo here, and the idiocy of the US police is not within their power to solve.

Yes. Well, not exactly wave guns around, but say and do stupid stuff? Not in a taxi around a human driver, no. And not in a subway car with people other than me and my friends, no. But your question had an “or” in it. If we had nerf guns and no one else was there to witness? It’s not unimaginable that someone might get a nerf dart to the ear when they didn’t expect it. My wife and I like watching real-life police det…

Good thing Waymo yells you you're being monitored then.

Re: Waymo pulls over, calls cops on juvenile riders who had 'ghost gun"

#52

Post by lotsofpulp »

adrianN wrote: post #30
Gimpei wrote: post #20

I dunno. This doesn’t bother me in the same way that flock cameras do. A Waymo car is a private space that you don’t have to use if you don’t want to. Seems pretty reasonable to me that Waymo doesn’t want their cars used for drive by shootings. If a drive by were to happen in a Waymo, this would be compelled by law anyway.

It starts to become a problem once you’ve replaced public infrastructure to a sufficient degree by private infrastructure like waymos that avoiding to use them starts to seriously inconvenience people.

What public infrastructure is replaced by Waymo? All the roads, traffic lights, signs, etc are all still there. Seems equivalent to any other vehicle that is not replacing public infrastructure.

Re: Waymo pulls over, calls cops on juvenile riders who had 'ghost gun"

#53

Post by Simulacra »

handwarmers wrote: post #9

Flock is bad, but fleets of cars strapped to the teeth with cameras and sensors are suddenly ok even when they call the police on you? Why? Because of the makers of the technology that powers the cars say they are safer (via datasets that we have no way to validate)?

Depends on how you feel about guns. I think people who are opposed to them would agree with this, people who are in favor of guns would be alarmed by this.

Re: Waymo pulls over, calls cops on juvenile riders who had 'ghost gun"

#54

Post by anon84873628 »

the8472 wrote: post #21
bot403 wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not a fan of expanding surveillance but the alternative of unmonitored transit seems worse. Going to shoot up a place? Take your guns on a waymo. It won't complain. Guy wants to take an obviously distressed and co-erced girl to an abandoned lot? No complaints. Person with obvious head injury and slurring speech wants to go home instead of the hospital? Sure. Person has heart attack and passes out in back? We'll j…

But it's a reduction of privacy compared to private vehicles. If the goal is to convert all transportation infrastructure into surveilled transportation then that is a loss in privacy for the general public.

You can raise that argument when they actually prevent you from owning your own vehicle.

Re: Waymo pulls over, calls cops on juvenile riders who had 'ghost gun"

#56

Post by anon84873628 »

PunchTornado wrote: post #40
kelnos wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's a big difference between a human present who can make a decision based on a situation literally in front of their eyes, and a computer flagging a video feed for someone in what amounts to a call center to look at and decide on. Not to mention the mass surveillance this sort of stuff continues to help enable.

A lot of taxis have models detecting weapons and aggressive behaviours. I work on some models like this. I think they are necessary. For driver's safety.

The number of people expecting drivers to calmly & accurately distinguish between real threats and not is wild.

Re: Waymo pulls over, calls cops on juvenile riders who had 'ghost gun"

#57

Post by iamnothere »

the8472 wrote: post #21
bot403 wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not a fan of expanding surveillance but the alternative of unmonitored transit seems worse. Going to shoot up a place? Take your guns on a waymo. It won't complain. Guy wants to take an obviously distressed and co-erced girl to an abandoned lot? No complaints. Person with obvious head injury and slurring speech wants to go home instead of the hospital? Sure. Person has heart attack and passes out in back? We'll j…

But it's a reduction of privacy compared to private vehicles. If the goal is to convert all transportation infrastructure into surveilled transportation then that is a loss in privacy for the general public.

That is acceptable (and even desirable) for these people.

Only the few who can afford luxury deserve privacy.

Re: Waymo pulls over, calls cops on juvenile riders who had 'ghost gun"

#58

Post by anon84873628 »

lemmetellya wrote: post #26

Wait, can I not carry in a Waymo? Found their rules page: "Do not carry weapons of any kind in the car" That seems... naive? Plenty of people carry pepper spray or a knife with them. Not even ever intending to use them as a weapon. When I go to the range, I travel with a locked case that contains my pistol, which inside has a cable lock. I couldn't take that through a waymo? What about some kid buying a goofy mall ka…

I understand Waymo having this position for now. I also think it is reasonable to push them to refine the rules for the situations you mention.

Re: Waymo pulls over, calls cops on juvenile riders who had 'ghost gun"

#59

Post by handwarmers »

anon84873628 wrote: post #49
threecheese wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a problem that autonomous vehicles created. Why should we not complain that its solution is worse than non-autonomous travel, given it carries risk that doesn't exist today? Does Waymo benefit society enough to carry the tradeoffs? And what surveillance or other risks does this introduce outside of the cabin, and why should society allow that? What is the definition of modicum of detection, and who is drawing…

>its solution is worse than non-autonomous travel Citation needed. Assaults and abuse against public transit and taxi drivers is a common workplace hazard. Why are we subjecting humans to that? Why are we ok expecting them to decide if a gun is fake or not and call the police? >Does Waymo benefit society enough to carry the tradeoffs? Absolutely.

>>Does Waymo benefit society enough to carry the tradeoffs?

>Absolutely.

Citation needed.

Why stop at Waymo? The entirety of your digital activity happens on private property. You should have no expectation of privacy, and your attempts at privacy should mark you as a higher risk subject. We should algorithmically police your digital life in case you start showing signs of anti-social behavior. I don't want to wait until you get your gun into a Waymo to have the cops handle you. I want you to be caught much earlier. This will make the world much safer.

There are other ways to solve safety issues, but they are harder and more expensive - civic education and a government invested in incentivizing a productive life, better law enforcement training, freely available mental health services etc.

Re: Waymo pulls over, calls cops on juvenile riders who had 'ghost gun"

#60

Post by anon84873628 »

seanmcdirmid wrote: post #37
epsteingpt wrote: post #7

Shocking this isn't bigger news. It will be strange what they get you for. Maybe car ownership isn't doomed after all. At least a human usually has some judgment and discretion situationally. I guess the alternative "Juvenile Driveby Shooting takes place from Waymo" isn't a better headline though.

Google would probably be held 100% liable if it happened from their car. . What I don’t get is why Waymo allows unaccompanied juvenile riders at all? That seems like a huge risk for them.

Teen accounts are supposed to be governed by the parent account.

I understand the appeal. Parents I've spoken to feel safer putting their kid in a Waymo than and Uber. And I guess the time savings of not driving them around yourself are too compelling.

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