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Study reveals UnitedHealth's profit margins four times what it claimed [pdf]

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Re: Study reveals UnitedHealth's profit margins four times what it claimed [pdf]

#51
post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>United Health Insurance has a profit cap, it’s a % of revenue. Sunshine Hospital has no cap. So Sunshine Hospital charged United Health Insurance X$ and that profit rolls up to United Health Group. That doesn't really work as a strategy unless UHI cornered the insurance market within a given region, otherwise they'd lose business to competing hospitals. You might then say "hospitals aren't competitive, they're (regi…

Uhh...? We know for a fact that this is how it works. It's actually far more insidious. The payer will have non-owned providers on their network, and by virtue of processing those claims they will understand a lot about the provider. They use this info to decide which providers to acquire. If the provider declines acquisition, the payer will use their member population (i.e. customers/patients of the provider who are…

>Yes, all of this only works if the payer is large relative to other payers. There was a period of history where this was a caveat, now it's just an observation about history. Now, there is 1 or 2 mega-players in each region. They've divvied up the country into their own territories and will extract rent henceforth.

...which is specifically what I acknowledge in my original comment:

>... unless UHI cornered the insurance market within a given region, otherwise they'd lose business to competing hospitals.

For all the words you wrote, it doesn't seem like you're disputing this point, and you're not providing any evidence that UHI has monopoly/monopsony powers, only postulating that it's probably true.

Re: Study reveals UnitedHealth's profit margins four times what it claimed [pdf]

#52

> Conventional accounting measures portray large health insurers such as UnitedHealth Group (UHG) as earning relatively low profit margins because they treat premium dollars that are subsequently paid out in medical claims as revenue. However, these medical claims are pass-through costs, not income retained by the insurer. I don't understand this claim. Doesn't every business have costs to make its goods and services…

I believe they are saying that only the portion of premiums paid by UHG customers _that are not_ spent on paying out claims should be counted as UHG revenue. That is if I and my employer pay UHG $18,000 over the course of the year and UHG pays out $2,500 to my doctors and to cover my prescriptions, only the remaining $15,500 should be counted as UHG revenue. The thinking here is that because UHG is legally obligated…

> if I…pay UHG $18,000 and… UHG pays out $2,500…, only the remaining $15,500 should be counted as UHG revenue

To illustrate the problem with this, what would you calculate their revenue to be if you become severely ill and they pay out $100,000?

There is no such concept in accounting as negative gross revenue. And situations where net revenue goes negative are exceedingly rare and complex (you’d probably hear about it in the news and someone might end up in jail).

Re: Study reveals UnitedHealth's profit margins four times what it claimed [pdf]

#53
Some of this has to do with limits from the ACA (Affordable Care Act), which limited the margins of insurance companies. It creates incentives for higher premiums, but also these types of gains, which is just bad for everybody.

I don't think there's much you can look at with the Affordable Care Act and think that it was a success.

Re: Study reveals UnitedHealth's profit margins four times what it claimed [pdf]

#54

I don't understand. Brokers quite correctly do not count the value of the shares because they never actually see it. But that's not the way insurance works--while dollars flow in and dollars flow out they are not remotely the same dollars. This feels like someone is trying to lie with statistics.

>I don't understand

If you don't understand why are you commenting?

Your response makes absolutely no sense at all.

Re: Study reveals UnitedHealth's profit margins four times what it claimed [pdf]

#56
post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not sure I'm buying it tbh. I'm no fan of the American healthcare system, but we don't need to invent new accounting to make it look worse than it is. Lots of businesses and industries have legal obligations to pay money for various things at various times, they don't treat that as pass through...it's revenue and expenses. Money is fungible.

I respectfully disagree. Should Stripe or VISA count all charges made with their network as revenue?

[deleted]

Re: Study reveals UnitedHealth's profit margins four times what it claimed [pdf]

#58

The nice thing about stuff like this is that you can check the stock price to see if it's actually meaningful. You're not gonna surprise a bunch of wallstreet analysts with a finding that profits are actually 4x, and if you do, the gap up in stock price would be near instant. That being said, while $UHG has had a good year, the stock is still underwater from where it's been since 2021, and no noticeable movement from…

It's possible for both profits to be up 4x or whatever and also Wall St to consider many other factors than profit when pricing the stock.

Re: Study reveals UnitedHealth's profit margins four times what it claimed [pdf]

#60
Somewhat related perhaps, "Universal Health Coverage Could Save $1 Trillion and 114,000 Lives Every Year, Yale Study Projects":

* https://ysph.yale.edu/news-article/universal-health-coverage...

Study:

* https://doi.org/10.64898/2026.07.22.26358689

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