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Tragically, as many as 9625 out of every 10k individuals may be neurotypical

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Re: Tragically, as many as 9625 out of every 10k individuals may be neurotypical

#51

Post by antonvs »

rglullis wrote: post #10

> written by some "expert" from the perspective that neurotypical perception is correct, and my brain is a genetic mistake. Well, it is a mistake. It is a deviation from the normal path. But so what? "Correct" and "mistake" are not antonyms. Without any mistakes, there would no be life in the world as we know. This is not a moral codemnation of any individual. > I and my experience of life is not inferior, and may be…

> Well, it is a mistake. It is a deviation from the normal path.

This is a non sequitur. Why do you assume variation is a “mistake”? And how do you define “normal”?

Re: Tragically, as many as 9625 out of every 10k individuals may be neurotypical

#52

Post by [deleted] »

curtisblaine wrote: post #45
spider-mario wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Neurodivergence does not require a diagnosis. https://sherlocksflataffect.tumblr.com/post/121295972384/psa... And looking outwards is exactly what it does since it references societal neuronormativity. It’s not about the “shortcomings you have”.

> Neurodivergence does not require a diagnosis. It does if you require to be treated specially.

[deleted]

Re: Tragically, as many as 9625 out of every 10k individuals may be neurotypical

#53

Post by rglullis »

ozlikethewizard wrote: post #38
rglullis wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If we are talking about genes, the goal is to keep the ability to duplicate itself. If there is anything about this duplication process that has lead to the individual's brain development with difficulties to adapt to life with their tribe, socialization and chances of finding a mate are also hindered.

The prevalance of these traits shows that it wasn't always a hinderance. Capitalist society predominantly valuing conformity is the issue.

1) Being a hinderance does not necessarily mean evolutionary dead-ends, and some traits can still be prevalent in populations because the diversity is what protects us from systemic environment shocks.

2) Perception and adherence of hierarchies and status symbols are things present in nature for millions of years. "Capitalist society" has nothing to do with it.

Re: Tragically, as many as 9625 out of every 10k individuals may be neurotypical

#54

Post by chadcmulligan »

crooked-v wrote: post #49
chadcmulligan wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thanks for the links - from the OP post "Neurotypical syndrome is a neurobiological disorder characterized by preoccupation with social concerns, delusions of superiority, and obsession with conformity." I know this is a gag, but I see things like this and think oh maybe I'm autistic but no, I have the same complaints autistic people have, I just call it deathly dull, who knows.

See also "Am I German or Autistic?", which despite the cheeky title, does a pretty good job showing the balance between cultural and mindset patterns and autism spectrum traits. https://german.millermanschool.com

Disappointing - it seems I'm neither German or Autistic, but normal, and yet my experience suggests otherwise

Re: Tragically, as many as 9625 out of every 10k individuals may be neurotypical

#55

Post by _puk »

watwut wrote: post #27
roenxi wrote: post #4

I'm torn on whether I like this parody. It is quite funny and IMO in good taste (which is hard to do when diagnosing 9,625 out of every 10,000 as deficient). It probably works well as an in-joke for people who prefer critical thinking to social proof. But it isn't really appropriate to fight fire with fire when it comes to calling people disordered and the people who need to hear the message won't understand it becau…

> t probably works well as an in-joke for people who prefer critical thinking to social proof. Autistic and neuroatypical are not better critical thinkers. Fairly often they just ... dont understand certain things. And wont accept clear straightforward plain language explanation of what others want, because in their heads they should not.

> wont accept clear straightforward plain language explanation of what others want

From experience this feels to me like a very NT thing to say (apologies if you're not NT, no context to determine either way) - it comes across as written: "Why can't you just do what I ask you".

Often it feels atypical people require a logical understanding from first principles of why something should be done.

Then, once they have that they need to come to the same conclusion of what the course of action is.

If they're aligned, awesome.

If not, then the work is to try to make them understand why, given the current constraints and cultural context, their optimal approach is suboptimal in this situation.

Something as simple as "yes your idea is great, it will work better then theirs, but sometimes others need to fail so that they can learn from their failure" - exact quote.

I'm speaking to a very limited subset here based on quite a bit of exposure in many contexts.

"Neuroatypical" shows up in many, many ways.

Re: Tragically, as many as 9625 out of every 10k individuals may be neurotypical

#56

Post by grebc »

jongjong wrote: post #40

So true. NT people are so frustrating! The scenario which drives me insane is; someone tells me some popular mainstream narrative about why we should do something in a particular way. Essentially just parroting expert consensus on a similar topic. I tell them exactly why this approach wouldn't work in that particular case and they concede to all my points. They fully agree and don't push back on anything. But then a…

David Chase(the wonderful creator of The Sopranos) has said on more than one occasion that people don’t say what they mean.

I think in your scenario that’s applying both ways.

Re: Tragically, as many as 9625 out of every 10k individuals may be neurotypical

#57

Post by neuroticnews25 »

ozlikethewizard wrote: post #36
Uptrenda wrote: post #17

The neurodivergent label was always incredibly stupid though. It's an entire movement trying to make it sound that having a pathological condition is fashionable. Something like a super quirky, human difference, as opposed to a health problem. Even though the condition is defined in the context of reduced functioning in society. OPs site is a good example of that flawed line of thinking. The bigger issue is that the…

It's not a health problem though. Neurodivergency (christ I hate that word) is far more prevalent than you'd expect, particularly ASD and ADHD, some 20% of the population. These traits have self selected for a reason, and any issues encountered are a fault of modern society not the individual imo.

Do you think there was ever a time when systemizing type thinking was more beneficial than now?

Re: Tragically, as many as 9625 out of every 10k individuals may be neurotypical

#58

Post by Den_VR »

rppz wrote: post #50

[flagged]

> Lost all respect instantly.

Just imagine there’s a cult that tells everyone that you and people like you are a mistake that should have been killed or “fixed” in the womb.

I maintain respect for the author, they have a good attitude in a grim reality.

Re: Tragically, as many as 9625 out of every 10k individuals may be neurotypical

#59

Post by blooalien »

iinnPP wrote: post #24

As someone who relates to the article, it reads a lot less like humor. It's a grim reality. Constantly being told there's something wrong with you, only to see clearly those around you, has a profoundly awful impact. Eventually it's replaced by more accurate internal modeling.

> Constantly being told there's something wrong with you

Worse yet, there's likely much less wrong with you than there is with those who feel they need to label you as somehow "less" to feel like "more" themselves.

Re: Tragically, as many as 9625 out of every 10k individuals may be neurotypical

#60

Post by dofm »

ozlikethewizard wrote: post #36
Uptrenda wrote: post #17

The neurodivergent label was always incredibly stupid though. It's an entire movement trying to make it sound that having a pathological condition is fashionable. Something like a super quirky, human difference, as opposed to a health problem. Even though the condition is defined in the context of reduced functioning in society. OPs site is a good example of that flawed line of thinking. The bigger issue is that the…

It's not a health problem though. Neurodivergency (christ I hate that word) is far more prevalent than you'd expect, particularly ASD and ADHD, some 20% of the population. These traits have self selected for a reason, and any issues encountered are a fault of modern society not the individual imo.

> These traits have self selected for a reason, and any issues encountered are a fault of modern society not the individual imo.

I mean, quite apart from the fact that you can be so profoundly autistic that you are vulnerable and cognitively limited, and so profoundly ADHD that you are incapable of keeping yourself safe.

I am as yet formally undiagnosed ADHD; it is obvious, so obvious to me that either I am in later life finally unable to blunder through with the ADHD patterns that are evident throughout my life, or I have early onset dementia (which is how severe it often feels).

It is in no way society's fault that I am impaired. I have no special talents from my condition that other people with better time management could not also have acquired (and often do, better than me).

There may be a benefit to society from my profound inability to manage time leading to me productively hyperfocussing on something that society wants, but this comes at a cost to my health.

So I don't really care for the idea that these traits might "select"; it is a disorder.

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