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DeepSeek Harness developer preview
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Re: DeepSeek Harness developer preview
#52Is there a reason why so many of these agent harness are written in node.js?
Skill issue. Their models don't work for serious programming so everyone just copies Electron apps from each other.
Re: DeepSeek Harness developer preview
#53Is there a reason why so many of these agent harness are written in node.js?
I'm not sure why specifically Javascript instead of something like Python or other options, but using an interpreted environment minimizes the friction for implementing extension systems, which are an important feature in AI harnesses.
Python basically requires containers unless you are OK with it bit-rotting every six months or so. At least, this used to be the case for trivial python, and recently was the case for stuff that uses cuda.
I stopped paying attention the third time they redefined matrix arithmetic semantics. That happened to be around the 100th time I was sent a script and it only ran on the author’s machine. Maybe they will fix it some day. When they do, I will not believe it.
In contrast, TS has a much nicer type system and better async support. It runs well on web, mobile, desktop and server. Yes, sometimes you have to ship node.js or a whole web browser, but the tooling for that is slightly less insane than the analogous tooling for python.
Its language interoperability story is slightly nicer too (invoke native code, or use wasm). It’s UI story is much, much better since it reuses all the web stuff.
Pip practically invented the supply chain attack; npm perfected it. That’s probably a draw.
Of course, if you care about performance, then other choices make more sense. If you’re training a model then python probably still wins, but very few customers have a $1M+ machine.
Re: DeepSeek Harness developer preview
#54Earlier quoted context omitted.
when you're waiting for network or LLM inference the raw performance doesn't matter at all
This line of thinking I feel like assumes it's the only program running on your computer. Using less of my CPU and memory means my computer can do more things in parallel, or even run more instances of the harness. My laptop is sweating when I got 5+ claude code sessions running.
Is it actually claude using those CPU cycles though, or the agent running test suites and what not?
Honestly I would not be surprised when it actually IS claude using those resources... It is very clearly vibed
Re: DeepSeek Harness developer preview
#55But like, what is it? Odd that this reached #1 on HN. The README is pretty bare outside of installation instructions and a link to "Cordis", which is "A Meta-Framework of Spatiotemporal Composability." and "under active development. The API is not yet stable and may change without notice.".
New coding harness that seems to have some novel concepts and one of the pretty cool things on their landing page for it here: https://deepseek.com/harness/en/ is the Every Run is Traceable view: "Everything the model sees is recorded in an append-only session log: system prompts, reasoning, tool calls and results, subagent scheduling, and every context injection. In the Trajectory view, you can inspect these records…
Seems like Agentsview, but built in and likely less features(at least, as of now): https://github.com/kenn-io/agentsview
Re: DeepSeek Harness developer preview
#56Earlier quoted context omitted.
aren't 3 and 4 a tradeoff though? Yes you have 3 but "decent performance" cannot be an extaled value as compared to "runs everywhere". If its used as a counter balance to 3 then it shouldn't be its own unique point basically saying 4 is true despite 3 in this case.
when you're waiting for network or LLM inference the raw performance doesn't matter at all
You would think raw performance wouldn't be a problem given most of whats happening is waiting for network calls and streaming tokens.
But modern bloat manages perfectly well to make apps that wait for network calls run poorly enough to give you a bad experience.
Re: DeepSeek Harness developer preview
#57Re: DeepSeek Harness developer preview
#58I have read the underlying paper, and found it may be useful, but not that useful.
For those who want to know what it achieves: it adds hot-reload and dynamic enable/dispose capabilities to a plugin system, like the one in Pi agents, though they push the boundaries further, to the UI components and so on.
For those who want to know what it does: if you have some PLT knowledge, ask your agent to explain the algebra to you better; for those who aren't familiar, the framework requires each plugin to provide how it initializes and how it destructs (like C++'s RAII, Rust's Drop trait and so on), and the runtime will then properly handle the lifecycle events and the common pitfalls. In addition, it provides a clean way to declare the dependencies between plugins, and the runtime will also properly process the lifecycle changes on a broader plane.
I think it's worth reading if you are not familiar with OSGi, iPOJO, React's useEffect and so on (which the paper itself mentions); for others, a skim is enough: it does point out the gotchas for some common problems, but the algebra may not help you further.
Re: DeepSeek Harness developer preview
#59But like, what is it? Odd that this reached #1 on HN. The README is pretty bare outside of installation instructions and a link to "Cordis", which is "A Meta-Framework of Spatiotemporal Composability." and "under active development. The API is not yet stable and may change without notice.".
New coding harness that seems to have some novel concepts and one of the pretty cool things on their landing page for it here: https://deepseek.com/harness/en/ is the Every Run is Traceable view: "Everything the model sees is recorded in an append-only session log: system prompts, reasoning, tool calls and results, subagent scheduling, and every context injection. In the Trajectory view, you can inspect these records…
is it just for coding? the docs don't mention code, just "agents"
Re: DeepSeek Harness developer preview
#60In the age of LLMs, if your new hires are pushing npm slop, with all the cargo culting and security pwn issues it brings, your hiring process has failed you
oof