We replaced our 2010 Ford Transit (diesel) with a 2022 Ssangyong (LDV) eDeliver 9 (battery electric), and one of the benefits I didn’t expect was just how much quieter it is in the cab - a conversation with my partner when we’re driving is much easier/more pleasant. (It’s not due to better insulation - both these vehicles are basically steel frames on wheels) - I don’t see this mentioned much in articles comparing EVs and ICEVs.
The climate benefits of retiring an operational combustion engine vehicle
51–60 of 97 posts
Re: The climate benefits of retiring an operational combustion engine vehicle
#52Earlier quoted context omitted.
Hybrids are the worst of both worlds when it comes to maintenance. They have their benefits and are key to fighting climate change, but mechanically you inherit all the problems from both sides. There is no way you are driving a 25 year old car without serious maintenance like exchanging the timing belt. Add the frequent oil changes and all other yearly maintenance and it does add up. Compared to a BEV, where you lit…
> Compared to a BEV, where you literally only need to change the break pads If you are not replacing your tires after decades, you and those around you should be fearing for their lives.
I mean, you also need to top up the wiper fluid and clean the floor, but that and tire change is not even maintenance, it’s just part of „use“, no?
I didn’t feel the need to mention something that everyone should be easily doing at home for the cost of materials alone.
Re: The climate benefits of retiring an operational combustion engine vehicle
#53Earlier quoted context omitted.
Hybrids are the worst of both worlds when it comes to maintenance. They have their benefits and are key to fighting climate change, but mechanically you inherit all the problems from both sides. There is no way you are driving a 25 year old car without serious maintenance like exchanging the timing belt. Add the frequent oil changes and all other yearly maintenance and it does add up. Compared to a BEV, where you lit…
Changing a timing belt is not serious maintenance. Just something that needs to be done at 100k. I just did the timing belt and water pump on my 300k tundra over the course of a weekend for 100 bucks.
It’s mechanical maintenance beyond the skill level of 99 out of a 100 car owners.
Re: The climate benefits of retiring an operational combustion engine vehicle
#54Earlier quoted context omitted.
Hybrids are the worst of both worlds when it comes to maintenance. They have their benefits and are key to fighting climate change, but mechanically you inherit all the problems from both sides. There is no way you are driving a 25 year old car without serious maintenance like exchanging the timing belt. Add the frequent oil changes and all other yearly maintenance and it does add up. Compared to a BEV, where you lit…
> mechanically you inherit all the problems from both sides Not really. The transmission is an e-CVT in hybrids which has no torque converter, the main part that breaks first in an automatic transmission. Unlike a regular CVT, the e-CVT has no belt, either. The e-CVT basically never breaks, so you basically never have a transmission go bad in a hybrid. On top of that, because the traction battery is so small, it's re…
Non-plugin hybrids are pointless in the context of the paper from the OP, since they don’t help with climate change.
Re: The climate benefits of retiring an operational combustion engine vehicle
#55Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Compared to a BEV, where you literally only need to change the break pads If you are not replacing your tires after decades, you and those around you should be fearing for their lives.
I mean, you also need to top up the wiper fluid and clean the floor, but that and tire change is not even maintenance, it’s just part of „use“, no? I didn’t feel the need to mention something that everyone should be easily doing at home for the cost of materials alone.
Are you talking about rotating your tires?
Most people do not purchase new tires and mount them onto their old rims, themselves, at home. Most people do not know how to set the bead on an automotive tire. Replacing worn out tires with new ones is no less difficult maintenance than replacing brake pads.
Re: The climate benefits of retiring an operational combustion engine vehicle
#56Earlier quoted context omitted.
Certainly not the case for hybrids like Priuses. The battery system lasts 10-15 years and 150k-200k miles. Any ICE car on the market now should be expected to last a lot longer than that; I drive cars that are 25+ years old and really don't need much significant in the way of repairs.
Hybrids are the worst of both worlds when it comes to maintenance. They have their benefits and are key to fighting climate change, but mechanically you inherit all the problems from both sides. There is no way you are driving a 25 year old car without serious maintenance like exchanging the timing belt. Add the frequent oil changes and all other yearly maintenance and it does add up. Compared to a BEV, where you lit…
By the time you get to variable valve lift and timing, the complexity of hybrids is either a wash or in favor of the hybrid when compared to a traditional engine. Electronics have been integrated in vehicles for generations now, and going hybrid lets you get rid of components and reduce overall mechanical complexity. It's not "two separate systems", it's just the obvious endpoint for internal combustion engines (and a process that is both a century old at this point, and already mature in other industries), because you get a strictly better machine from both a performance standpoint, and a design and engineering standpoint.
Not to mention, much of the complexity in ICEs comes back to cooling and lubrication, both of which are also concerns in BEVs.
Re: The climate benefits of retiring an operational combustion engine vehicle
#57Earlier quoted context omitted.
> mechanically you inherit all the problems from both sides Not really. The transmission is an e-CVT in hybrids which has no torque converter, the main part that breaks first in an automatic transmission. Unlike a regular CVT, the e-CVT has no belt, either. The e-CVT basically never breaks, so you basically never have a transmission go bad in a hybrid. On top of that, because the traction battery is so small, it's re…
Non-plugin hybrids are pointless in the context of the paper from the OP, since they don’t help with climate change.
False, hybrids reduce fuel consumption and therefore emissions substantially, Toyota Sienna went from 22 mpg combined to 35 mpg combined when they switched it from gas to hybrid. Several wild claims from you today.
Re: The climate benefits of retiring an operational combustion engine vehicle
#58The fact of the matter is that the only thing that matters to most people is what makes economic sense to them. As for me, no way am I trading my 20 year old, fully paid for, cheap to insure, cheap to register ICE vehicle for a new EV with payments, higher insurance, and higher registration fees.
> the only thing that matters to most people is what makes economic sense to them. The other thing is the UX of figuring out how much an EV costs to charge is painful. It changes every few miles based on who your utility provider is, going through the various plans, figuring out the right plan. The vast majority of people are incapable of that. It works out to be cheaper (a lot cheaper) for most people, but its hard…
Is it really that painful? If you are charging from home, you just look at your local power rates. If you charge for one or two road trips a year, you don't even bother calculating that. If you don't have charging at home, then you add the charging costs of the superchargers you usually go to, actually I'd be surprised if your vehicle couldn't just tell you those numbers.
It makes sense in Hawaii, CA, and NY compared to local petrol prices. Heck, UK, France...it doesn't make sense in countries that heavily subsidize gasoline, like Iran, Saudi Arabia, and maybe Venazuala.
Chinese gas prices being what they are, and electricity prices being fairly low, you don't even need to really bother doing the math. The bigger cost is going to be parking and plate costs.
Re: The climate benefits of retiring an operational combustion engine vehicle
#59The fact of the matter is that the only thing that matters to most people is what makes economic sense to them. As for me, no way am I trading my 20 year old, fully paid for, cheap to insure, cheap to register ICE vehicle for a new EV with payments, higher insurance, and higher registration fees.
If you were living in Nepal and your country was getting all of its refined gasoline from India, and therefore that was super expensive, while China was helping your country build a bunch of hydro plants, oh, and they were sending a bunch of EVs to buy over the pass from Tibet, I think your math might change (but then you would highly likely not have that ICE car to begin with).
Re: The climate benefits of retiring an operational combustion engine vehicle
#60I'd love a BEV but where do I charge it?
If I use public chargers isn't that vastly more expensive?